Why is a tune required with header/hi-flow cat installation? - Page 5 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

bucketobolts · 08-09-2012, 09:08 PM

Moving the O2 has no effect. What is hard to understand. Code is from the cat not performing.

I understand you can get the HP from tuning, but you won't see it from merely replacing the cat with a HiFlow, which is what Higgs Boaster inferred.

The cat is a restriction in exhaust. If it ain't workin', take it out.

Higgs Boson · 08-09-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucketobolts

You are really showing your brilliance, just as in other threads.

The 02 is passive and just reports. It does not know where it is nor does positioning effect its readings.

It is the converters that are not working...plain and simple, and the 02 tells the PCM to turn on the light.

I can also hijack if you would like to debate Constitutional Law. I bought and paid for my vehicle therefore it is my personal property. No one, especially you who has been contracted to work on my vehicle, has no right to rifle though my vehicle. I don't care who your daddy is or what he has bought you.

who's the troll again? lol.

your comments about the o2 sensors do not contradict anything I have said.

I am a full grown man, quite possibly older than you. I am also a business owner, fully separate from my families other businesses. just because I reference my father does not mean I am still on the family teet.

Higgs Boson · 08-09-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucketobolts

Moving the O2 has no effect. What is hard to understand. Code is from the cat not performing.

I understand you can get the HP from tuning, but you won't see it from merely replacing the cat with a HiFlow, which is what Higgs Boaster inferred.

The cat is a restriction in exhaust. If it ain't workin', take it out.

you have no idea what you are talking about. people see gains with hi flow cats every day.

the code with a factory cat in there is certainly from the cat not performing. you can also get the same code if there is no cat or a high flow cat because the interpretation is the same, no working cat. that code is from sensor 2.

sensor 1 is the sensor that needs to be close enough to the engine to heat to read properly. you are confused my good, angry fellow.

bucketobolts · 08-09-2012, 09:38 PM

Sorry I am confused, but what color is the sky in your world?

And I dare to say I was probably turning wrenches when you were still on the teet...

You do know that the convoluted misinformation given out by many members, not unlike yourself, have brought this forum to be know as the Technical gaff of the LS world.

I shall return to reading and being appalled at the innocents that are being mislead.

I will now cease and desist...you win

greenmachinedriver · 08-09-2012, 10:11 PM

Wow this thread is close to fail status.
op, I have been running high flow cats and long tubes over a year no tune. I have spacers in the rear o2 sensors to fool the ecu into thinking the cats are working. My cel comes on once every few months for a front o2 slow response due to slightly off mixture. I will and always planed to tune but am waiting on more mods first.
Higgs, you would have cringed when my service manager told me to warranty a long block for a client with a g35 with a supercharger that melted pistons. NNA should not havr to shell out 10k for somthing that the cient caused. But it just goes to show you warranty all depends on who your dealing with. Not to many clear cut answers.

Coyotekiller · 08-09-2012, 10:24 PM

Back to topic please? You guys make my head hurt....

2SS45th · 08-09-2012, 10:30 PM

Alright, the op asked why the tune is required for headers. In short, a tune isn't. But, a tune can unlock 15 horsepower, turn off the CEL, and help manage air fuel trims. A common option is to add LTs, but wait to tune until there are other mods that truly require a tune. With off road extensions, the CEL will definitely turn on. With cats, it can sometimes not throw a CEL. Will having a CEL hurt anything? Nope, but it can impede the vehicle's ability to warn you of another possible problem. IMO, if you plan on further modding within a few months, wait to tune. If this is it for greater than a few months, have it tuned for peace of mind.

Coyotekiller · 08-09-2012, 10:33 PM

But he also stated that he wanted the mod for the sound... That's not why most people add longtubes...

2SS45th · 08-09-2012, 10:39 PM

All long tubes produce basically the same sound, and tuning won't change that. Just like with cams, people also do it just for lope instead of performance. You can't really go wrong on headers, just go for 304 stainless. You could draw sticks after that, but you should probably label the longest stick SW

Higgs Boson · 08-09-2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucketobolts

Sorry I am confused, but what color is the sky in your world?

And I dare to say I was probably turning wrenches when you were still on the teet...

You do know that the convoluted misinformation given out by many members, not unlike yourself, have brought this forum to be know as the Technical gaff of the LS world.

I shall return to reading and being appalled at the innocents that are being mislead.

I will now cease and desist...you win

whatever man. party on. nothing u have said has made sense yet. and this forum has been the technical gaff of the ls world for years before I arrived two months ago, lol, which is exactly why I am so long winded.

you may have been turning wrenches in the 40s but cars are different now, mmkay?

Higgs Boson · 08-09-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmachinedriver

Wow this thread is close to fail status.
op, I have been running high flow cats and long tubes over a year no tune. I have spacers in the rear o2 sensors to fool the ecu into thinking the cats are working. My cel comes on once every few months for a front o2 slow response due to slightly off mixture. I will and always planed to tune but am waiting on more mods first.
Higgs, you would have cringed when my service manager told me to warranty a long block for a client with a g35 with a supercharger that melted pistons. NNA should not havr to shell out 10k for somthing that the cient caused. But it just goes to show you warranty all depends on who your dealing with. Not to many clear cut answers.

I agree with all u said here.

I worked out of the Dallas regional office lol. don't tell me which dealer that had u do this, not that I care now.

mtmtx · 08-09-2012, 11:07 PM

Quote:

I gotta ask, ever been in the car business? Do you know ANY of the real numbers behind markup, warranty costs, goodwill costs, etc? Just curious, because if you do and that is really your opinion, I guess that's valid, but if you are just saying that and you are an artist or something, then, come on, don't say what you don't know for sure.

lynxone · 08-10-2012, 12:13 AM

Personally, I love the drama...

And, in between all the bickering, there's some great info to digest. I see a lot of people gettin down on Higgs on many of these threads, but I gotta say he goes out of his way to explain what he's talking about and I appreciate that.

Course, I'm a newb so wtf do I know?

strych9 · 08-10-2012, 02:03 PM

This thread has generated some interesting responses. For the record, I am interested in both sound and performance, but the scope of my inquiry focused on the sound benefits, and possible performance detriments if no tune was performed. I already have a cat back Flowmaster AT system. Sounds good, just not as good as my catless, MAC x-piped Mustang did with the same system.

Great points and input by all, including the spirited debate.

08-09-2012, 10:11 PM	#61
greenmachinedriver Drives: white 2010 ss and 2011 6.2 silvy Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: dfw Posts: 316	Wow this thread is close to fail status. op, I have been running high flow cats and long tubes over a year no tune. I have spacers in the rear o2 sensors to fool the ecu into thinking the cats are working. My cel comes on once every few months for a front o2 slow response due to slightly off mixture. I will and always planed to tune but am waiting on more mods first. Higgs, you would have cringed when my service manager told me to warranty a long block for a client with a g35 with a supercharger that melted pistons. NNA should not havr to shell out 10k for somthing that the cient caused. But it just goes to show you warranty all depends on who your dealing with. Not to many clear cut answers. __________________ 2010 RS2SS, XS POWER HEADERS AND FULL EXHAUST, ROTOFAB COLD AIR AND ENGINE COVERS, MSD PLUG WIRES. PFADT DROP SPRINGS, SPORT SWAY BARS, TRAILING ARMS, TOE LINKS. HURST SHIFTER, BILLET PEDALS. BLACKOUT TAIL PANEL, TINTED TAIL LIGHTS, MAIL SLOT BLACKOUT, WHITE BOWTIES

08-09-2012, 10:30 PM	#63
2SS45th Drives: 11 Seconds or Faster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Arvada, Colorado Posts: 2,797 View My Garage	Alright, the op asked why the tune is required for headers. In short, a tune isn't. But, a tune can unlock 15 horsepower, turn off the CEL, and help manage air fuel trims. A common option is to add LTs, but wait to tune until there are other mods that truly require a tune. With off road extensions, the CEL will definitely turn on. With cats, it can sometimes not throw a CEL. Will having a CEL hurt anything? Nope, but it can impede the vehicle's ability to warn you of another possible problem. IMO, if you plan on further modding within a few months, wait to tune. If this is it for greater than a few months, have it tuned for peace of mind. __________________ I Ain't About That Stock Life.

08-09-2012, 10:39 PM	#65
2SS45th Drives: 11 Seconds or Faster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Arvada, Colorado Posts: 2,797 View My Garage	All long tubes produce basically the same sound, and tuning won't change that. Just like with cams, people also do it just for lope instead of performance. You can't really go wrong on headers, just go for 304 stainless. You could draw sticks after that, but you should probably label the longest stick SW __________________ I Ain't About That Stock Life.

08-10-2012, 12:13 AM	#69
lynxone Drives: 2012 2ss 45th anniversary edition Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Denver Posts: 212 View My Garage	Personally, I love the drama... And, in between all the bickering, there's some great info to digest. I see a lot of people gettin down on Higgs on many of these threads, but I gotta say he goes out of his way to explain what he's talking about and I appreciate that. Course, I'm a newb so wtf do I know? __________________ 2012 2SS 45th with a few tasteful mods

08-10-2012, 02:03 PM	#70
strych9 I'll be back... Drives: Subaru, HD Road Glide Special Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 3,036 View My Garage	This thread has generated some interesting responses. For the record, I am interested in both sound and performance, but the scope of my inquiry focused on the sound benefits, and possible performance detriments if no tune was performed. I already have a cat back Flowmaster AT system. Sounds good, just not as good as my catless, MAC x-piped Mustang did with the same system. Great points and input by all, including the spirited debate. __________________ Bye bye, Bumblebee! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Build Journal My Garage GoPro Mic Hack

08-09-2012, 09:08 PM	#57
bucketobolts Drives: 2010 2SS Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 149	Moving the O2 has no effect. What is hard to understand. Code is from the cat not performing. I understand you can get the HP from tuning, but you won't see it from merely replacing the cat with a HiFlow, which is what Higgs Boaster inferred. The cat is a restriction in exhaust. If it ain't workin', take it out.

08-09-2012, 09:38 PM	#60
bucketobolts Drives: 2010 2SS Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Salisbury, NC Posts: 149	Sorry I am confused, but what color is the sky in your world? And I dare to say I was probably turning wrenches when you were still on the teet... You do know that the convoluted misinformation given out by many members, not unlike yourself, have brought this forum to be know as the Technical gaff of the LS world. I shall return to reading and being appalled at the innocents that are being mislead. I will now cease and desist...you win

08-09-2012, 10:24 PM	#62
Coyotekiller Account Suspended Drives: 2012 AGM 2SS Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Beaufort, NC Posts: 1,383	Back to topic please? You guys make my head hurt....

08-09-2012, 10:33 PM	#64
Coyotekiller Account Suspended Drives: 2012 AGM 2SS Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Beaufort, NC Posts: 1,383	But he also stated that he wanted the mod for the sound... That's not why most people add longtubes...