GMPP headers, exhaust, CAI add no POWER

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by 496BIGBLOCK

I just broke my face on the desk after these three pages...

Agreed why doesn't everyone just run out and rack up 100K miles then do whatever the hell you want after that.

Stop blameing GM for wanting to void warranties. They are a buisness that has a marginal profit on each car. They don't want to be spending money because some idiot messed up a car that GM has to warranty for 100K miles.

[JohnnyCamaro]

This is JohnnyCamaro aka John Cox from Chevy Accessories. I want to clear up some confusion and assure you that the GMPP parts do uphold the vehicle warranties and that the parts have been tested and validated to ensure they can uphold to the vehicle warranty standards. All of these parts go through significant testing standards which by the way, do drive costs, but ensure that we sell a high quality part that we are willing to stand by. As to why other aftermarket performance parts will void your warranty, it is simple. GM has not done this detailed performance testing on the product and does not know the limits that the aftermarket supplier designed to. Our engineers are extremely good at identifying cause and effect of different parameters and we use this testing to help us develop our own systems. For those of you who dont know our Exhaust and Headers are designed by GM and produced by Borla who's name speaks for itself in the industry.

Thanks,

JohnnyCamaro

Originally Posted by JDBeck23

I would love to hear some testimony from a GM representative giving us the GUARANTEE that the warranties are good so long as you use GMPP parts. Something tells me that when push comes to shove, if the part cause the problem and it didnt come from the factory with it, GM wont cover it.

And if they do cover it, it's soley so that they can justify the relatively huge price tag compared to the aftermarket alternatives.

IF they cover it truly, I can definitely see the added peace of mind in purchasing only GMPP, but that doesnt mean you should avoid all other aftermarket company's products. The part still has to directly cause the failure and they have to prove it in order to void your warranty.

Guys have been bolting on stuff for years, GM wants us to enjoy these cars... Hence the creation of Launch Control! I think that once you wade through the dealer's BS, GM will stand by their product and the warranty they've promised.

[JohnnyCamaro]

The GMPP Exhaust and Headers are actually Designed and developed by GM. The supplier for this is Borla. We do not take Borla parts and logo them. We develop our own systems, working with GM Engineers and our supplier Borla. If we were to ever logo other people's parts we do a licensing contract. None of these parts are licensed parts.

Originally Posted by HaveBlue

That's a great post on the MMA nova. But understand that that applies to a replacement part. A belt, an alternator filter etc, MMA came about because the OE's wanted to say you could ONLY USE AC Delco parts or (Insert your OE here). This was done to protect free enterprise and price competition in the huge replacement parts industry. So under MMA, an OE cannot say you can only use AC Delco, or Gates or Fram or Motorcraft to maintain your warranty.

MMA does not cover "off road only parts" that alter the factory emissions OR the emission parts. If a part doesn't alter emissions output but doesn't have an EGR valve (for example) that the original did, fail, not legal.
You can not relocate the catalytic converters, period. I'm not saying it makes sense, it's the Federal Government after all. That's why Cat-Backs are so popular. No emissions stuff gets relocated.

Certified Emissions Legal parts are covered under MMA.

Concerning GMPP headers. They are Borla's. They have a GM part number. But they are the same headers that Borla will sell you UNLESS it's a contracted part were GMPP pays for the R&D and tolling to have an exclusive. Usually the volume of the part is so low that they don't do that. So the Aftermarket company can sell the same part under their brand (usually at a lower price due to less overhead nd GM's internal markups. Edelbrock make cylinder heads and manifolds sold with GMPP logos and numbers, MSD sells GMPP distributors, Auto Meter gauges etc. GMPP is separate from the OE brands. They are a stand alone and have to make money. They want a piece of the aftermarket business. They liscense the logos to aftermarket companies (for a 9% fee).

Doc's post is dead on.

"If you want to mod your car, then UNDERSTAND that you take on the responsibility of your OWN ACTIONS and it's not anybody else's "fault" if something you do breaks something. That's the way it goes; learn from it and do it better so it doesn't break the next time. If you aren't willing to accept that responsibility, then DON'T MESS WITH IT. Pure and simple."

Enjoy your car modify it if you want. But your are accountable for what you do.

[ffrcobra_65]

another "perceived" knowledge war going on here. The bottom line, if you want to know for sure, get it from the horse's mouth. Not from the guy who makes the horse shoe, or the guy who rides the horse, or the guy who shoots steroids into it. You buy GM parts to install on GM cars, your warranty is still golden. Filters are not going to void warranty. After-market performance add-ons likely will, just depends what the horse says....

[HaveBlue]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCamaro

The GMPP Exhaust and Headers are actually Designed and developed by GM. The supplier for this is Borla. We do not take Borla parts and logo them. We develop our own systems, working with GM Engineers and our supplier Borla. If we were to ever logo other people's parts we do a licensing contract. None of these parts are licensed parts.

Johnny,
It's really great to have you posting here. You are right I made an assumption on the Borla/GMPP headers. I apologize.
But my assumption was made, erroneously, because I do know, for a fact that the 1236693 GMPP head is an Edelbrock 60459. Only different are logos. The BBC 502/502 is an Edelbrock Performer RPM, with GM logos and numbered runners. The 572 crate engine comes with an MSD 85551 distributor.
Not that any of this is a bad thing. The parts were vetted by GM engineers and why re-invent the wheel.
I will refrain from posting about any part that I'm not 100% sure about.
Again, my apologies.
.

[1camaro70]

the whole point of this thread is that if GM makes a shorty header, or an exhaust or CAI it is virtually identical to other aftermarket manufacturers as far HP and Torque, why will it void your warranty? what if GMPP headers produce more HP than ARH? Is warranty safe? These parts are bolt on, there is no big difference in performance, so why GM are yours the only ones that don't void the warranty?????????????????????

'Our engineers are extremely good at identifying cause and effect of different parameters and we use this testing to help us develop our own systems.'

Sorry, why do the A/F ratio's vary so much on (at least the) L99's, are these 'different Peramiters"!!!!!!!!

[SRVFAN]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

As of right now, the only approved performance part for the 2010 Camaro is their axle back exhaust (non off road version).

Stupid question here, but here goes anyway........ does anyone know how much this system costs & what does it SOUND like?

I'm sorry, but I don't give a hoot about increasing HP, gas milage, performance, any of that... just want a decent sounding deep growl from my car. Are there sound clips of it somewhere?

THANKS in advance y'all!

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by 1camaro70

the whole point of this thread is that if GM makes a shorty header, or an exhaust or CAI it is virtually identical to other aftermarket manufacturers as far HP and Torque, why will it void your warranty? what if GMPP headers produce more HP than ARH? Is warranty safe? These parts are bolt on, there is no big difference in performance, so why GM are yours the only ones that don't void the warranty?????????????????????

'Our engineers are extremely good at identifying cause and effect of different parameters and we use this testing to help us develop our own systems.'

Sorry, why do the A/F ratio's vary so much on (at least the) L99's, are these 'different Peramiters"!!!!!!!!

Remember when you would ask your parents over and over, "why?" and eventually they would say: "Because thats the way it is", well that applies here. Someone needs to wind up and smash you in the skull with a common sense bat. Of course GM wants you to buy their parts. That makes them money. Don't like it? Leave it stock, risk your warranty, or don't buy the car, its that simple.

[cooler2442]

Originally Posted by 1camaro70

the whole point of this thread is that if GM makes a shorty header, or an exhaust or CAI it is virtually identical to other aftermarket manufacturers as far HP and Torque, why will it void your warranty? what if GMPP headers produce more HP than ARH? Is warranty safe? These parts are bolt on, there is no big difference in performance, so why GM are yours the only ones that don't void the warranty?????????????????????

'Our engineers are extremely good at identifying cause and effect of different parameters and we use this testing to help us develop our own systems.'

Sorry, why do the A/F ratio's vary so much on (at least the) L99's, are these 'different Peramiters"!!!!!!!!

I don't know why its so hard for you to understand but it has already been posted. ANY GMPP PART YOU PUT ON YOUR CAR KEEPS YOUR WARRANTY.

Why? Because they designed the part, they tested it for however many miles needed to be tested to be CARB approved and they are willing to stand behind there part. Where as if you go aftermarket NONE of the companies are as big as GM and almost none of them have the same resources as GM to test these parts on a Camaro for 100k miles. That is why GM won't honor your warranty if you go aftermarket you have no idea how the part was tested where as the GMPP parts are safe for your engine.

Its as simple as that.

[SGOS252382]

Originally Posted by SRVFAN

Stupid question here, but here goes anyway........ does anyone know how much this system costs & what does it SOUND like?

I'm sorry, but I don't give a hoot about increasing HP, gas milage, performance, any of that... just want a decent sounding deep growl from my car. Are there sound clips of it somewhere?

THANKS in advance y'all!

I have the GMPP "off road" axle back exhaust. It's actually a little on the aggressive side. It sounds just like the Borla axle back (the one with mufflers).

The GMPP "regular version" axle back exhaust is a litle more tame, but has a nice low sound to it.

There a sound clips of both floating around. But the video's really don't do either exhaust justice.

[SGOS252382]

Originally Posted by SRVFAN

Stupid question here, but here goes anyway........ does anyone know how much this system costs & what does it SOUND like?

I'm sorry, but I don't give a hoot about increasing HP, gas milage, performance, any of that... just want a decent sounding deep growl from my car. Are there sound clips of it somewhere?

THANKS in advance y'all!

I have the GMPP "off road" axle back exhaust. It's actually a little on the aggressive side. It sounds just like the Borla axle back (the one with mufflers).

The GMPP "regular version" axle back exhaust is a litle more tame, but has a nice low sound to it.

This thread of mine has pictures and a video clip of the GMPP "off road" axle back.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ight=GMPP+road
There more sound clips of both floating around.

[HaveBlue]

Originally Posted by 1camaro70

the whole point of this thread is that if GM makes a shorty header, or an exhaust or CAI it is virtually identical to other aftermarket manufacturers as far HP and Torque, why will it void your warranty? what if GMPP headers produce more HP than ARH? Is warranty safe? These parts are bolt on, there is no big difference in performance, so why GM are yours the only ones that don't void the warranty?????????????????????

'Our engineers are extremely good at identifying cause and effect of different parameters and we use this testing to help us develop our own systems.'

Sorry, why do the A/F ratio's vary so much on (at least the) L99's, are these 'different Peramiters"!!!!!!!!

Long tube headers violate the emissions law by relocating the cats. Doesn't matter what the A/F's are or anything else. The Clean Air Act is a Federal law. Your car is no longer street legal in the EPA's eyes. GM has to guarantee the emissions for 50,000 miles. Therefore you no longer have a warranty.
All this talk about A/F's and power comparisons has no bearing on the emissions violation side. If it doesn't have an EO and it modifies an emission component (not the output just the part) it's not legal.
That's why the fine print says "Off Road Use Only".

[Van]

If that's the case...what emissions component is moved, altered, or removed with an axle back?

I always thought that so long as an emissions component existed then the emissions output would stay intact and therefore legal. Hmmm..

[HaveBlue]

None, Axle backs or Cat-Backs as the industry refers to them are fine. They are a stock replacement part. You just can't relocate a catalytic converter or O sensor.(or turn it off). The only problem you might have is if your state has a noise (db limit) ordinance. Tons of dealers have sold and installed cat-backs. It's been a staple of the truck market for years.

I always thought that so long as an emissions component existed then the emissions output would stay intact and therefore legal. Hmmm..

That used to be the case. Another loophole they've closed. Not you cannot even relocate them. CA now has a catalytic converter spec! Most cats (hi-flo) sold in previously in CA are illegal starting this year.