killed the motor on a road course

[SuperchargedStealth]

Originally Posted by h018871

I forget which bearing this was, the rear I believe.

we tore the motor down on the floor of a friends garage, hardly sanitary conditions. I think what you are seeing is sand or dirt. there was not that much metal (steel) anywhere.

it was easy to see that metal was in the oil especially on the front main journal, I suspect it was coming from the cam lobes and lifter rollers.


SCStealth: a question for you. if the oil pressure is high, will it make the hydraulic lifters act like solid lifters? put another way, could the hypothetical "too much load from the lifters" be caused by oil pressure? if so, how much oil pressure would cause it?
I'm thinking this way because many years ago, I shimmed a SB chevy oil pump spring and the hydraulic lifters would never quiet down and the motor would stumble when you tried to adjust them as if they were hydraulic.
not sure if that is clear.............

No. The high volume oil pump is just going to push oil through the motor faster to parts that require it. I had a high volume pump when I was on a stock shortblock. Because I upgrade my cam, springs, and lifters, the oil pump was something that my shop recommended. There was never any issues with lifter tap or valve tap.

[wickedrx7]

Do you have an oil temp gauge? Did you overfill your pan? Did you check oil level before each session? Do you have an oil cooler? What weight oil are you running?

Some notes with regards to my questions:
Oil temps without a cooler will get in the 320+ range
Higher volume oil pumps can cause starvation due to slow drain-back
Thicker oils will help slightly with oil viscosity breakdown

Go here and spend some money... www.improvedracing.com

[SuperchargedStealth]

Originally Posted by wickedrx7

Do you have an oil temp gauge? Did you overfill your pan? Did you check oil level before each session? Do you have an oil cooler? What weight oil are you running?

Some notes with regards to my questions:
Oil temps without a cooler will get in the 320+ range
Higher volume oil pumps can cause starvation due to slow drain-back
Thicker oils will help slightly with oil viscosity breakdown

Go here and spend some money... www.improvedracing.com

With the oil pump, the oil is sucked up and pushed through the valleys quicker. High volume is just referring to the pump as being able to move oil faster. Drain, is just a factor of gravity. You're also talking about 2 gallons of oil.

[h018871]

Originally Posted by wickedrx7

Do you have an oil temp gauge? Did you overfill your pan? Did you check oil level before each session? Do you have an oil cooler? What weight oil are you running?

Some notes with regards to my questions:
Oil temps without a cooler will get in the 320+ range
Higher volume oil pumps can cause starvation due to slow drain-back
Thicker oils will help slightly with oil viscosity breakdown

Go here and spend some money... www.improvedracing.com

wicked
here's the "go back together thread" http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386392
the car has the factory 4 pack gauges, but there is a lot of discussion here on C5 as to the accuracy of the factory oil temp reading
I will add a separate gauge
nope, did not overfill nor underfill the oil in the motor
no, I did not check the oil level after every session, but on teardown there was no sign of oil starvation and the pan was full
I did have the factory LS3 heat exchanger, but will now go with an external cooler
I run GM 5/30 dyno oil

improved racing has some very nice gear...........they are familiar with my credit card

my belief regarding high flow oil pumps is that their main purpose in life is to ensure that the oil passages are full and fully pressured. much of the "additional volume" just gets dumped back into the pan, so oil starvation from pumping all of the oil to the top of the motor does not occur.
this is based on the assumption that all clearances are maintained to spec. if you open up clearances............that changes things and allows more oil to be pumped through the engine

[wickedrx7]

Originally Posted by SuperchargedStealth

With the oil pump, the oil is sucked up and pushed through the valleys quicker. High volume is just referring to the pump as being able to move oil faster. Drain, is just a factor of gravity. You're also talking about 2 gallons of oil.

Your statment actually supports exactly what I was saying. I am fairly new to the ls3 game but have been in the ls1 game for awhile they had a problem with drain back, you would pump a "higher volume" of oil in to the top end and "gravity" wouldn't have enough time to replace it into the oil pan.

This is the reason almost every ls track guy I know run an extra quart of oil.

[wickedrx7]

Originally Posted by h018871

wicked
here's the "go back together thread" http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386392
the car has the factory 4 pack gauges, but there is a lot of discussion here on C5 as to the accuracy of the factory oil temp reading
I will add a separate gauge
nope, did not overfill nor underfill the oil in the motor
no, I did not check the oil level after every session, but on teardown there was no sign of oil starvation and the pan was full
I did have the factory LS3 heat exchanger, but will now go with an external cooler
I run GM 5/30 dyno oil

improved racing has some very nice gear...........they are familiar with my credit card

my belief regarding high flow oil pumps is that their main purpose in life is to ensure that the oil passages are full and fully pressured. much of the "additional volume" just gets dumped back into the pan, so oil starvation from pumping all of the oil to the top of the motor does not occur.
this is based on the assumption that all clearances are maintained to spec. if you open up clearances............that changes things and allows more oil to be pumped through the engine

What temp were you seeing on that gauge?

I agree that it doesn't look like catastofic failure but there is a lot of wear. (I am no expert though) As I said above, most ls guys with track cars overfill to avoid this possible issue. Also to help with oil starvation on high g corners.
Also, it is well documented that these cars will consume oil especially at the track. I go through about a 1/3 quart ever 25 min session.
I have an Accusump, improved baffle and oil cooler FYI, I think these are a minimum for any tracked LS car.
Edit- just read your build thread and looks like you are on the right track. Now just add in an Accusump. Ha! ��

[h018871]

When the motor quit and I got it to the pits, I did pull the dipstick. it was where it should be, was clear/amber and did not smell like gas. I took these all as good signs.
1/3 quart per session seems to be quite a bit. the rings must be set a little loose. sounds like it needs (needed) a vacuum pump to help the rings seal.
I'm not familiar with Accusump, but on some you can add another scavenger to make the sump vacuum for you.

the builder and I discussed a vacuum pump for mine. we decided since it is a DD I would be better off with the rings set a bit tighter than they would be with the pump to help with oil consumption and make the build a little less complicated.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by h018871

When the motor quit and I got it to the pits, I did pull the dipstick. it was where it should be, was clear/amber and did not smell like gas. I took these all as good signs.
1/3 quart per session seems to be quite a bit. the rings must be set a little loose. sounds like it needs (needed) a vacuum pump to help the rings seal.
I'm not familiar with Accusump, but on some you can add another scavenger to make the sump vacuum for you.

the builder and I discussed a vacuum pump for mine. we decided since it is a DD I would be better off with the rings set a bit tighter than they would be with the pump to help with oil consumption and make the build a little less complicated.

What machine work was done to the block?

[h018871]

not a lot really
general clean up
0.005 cylinder hone
check the deck height and true
align bore

haha, don't tell me I should have done something that is critical to the build.....yeah Pete, go ahead and tell me

[JusticePete]

Did they happen to tell you the Ra after the cylinder hone?

[h018871]

Ra?????


and probably "no" they didn't

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by h018871

Ra?????


and probably "no" they didn't

It is the roughness of the finish, a perthometer is used to measure it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_roughness

Depending on the build, NA, FI or Professional Race i.e. NASCAR and the ring material the cylinder will be honed to a specified finish. An out of spec hone creates issues with rings seating.

Another example would be the finish on a cam lobe. Cams will come in anywhere from an 8 to 20. Tumble (RIM finish) the cam and you could see the Ra drop to under 2. Get it too smooth and the roller can walk off.

The measurement is an exact science. Different builders will have different opinions on what the 'correct' Ra is for a specific build. Not all builders use a perthometer to verify the cylinder finish is correct.

[h018871]

Wow Pete
Looks like I have some homework and a discussion with the builder

I'm sure he has it right, but definitely info I'd like to know