CAFE What's it doing to the industry?

[GTAHVIT]

Back up to $4 here... Grrrrr.

[Wm Holden]

3.70 in cali...for a change

[Zhawk]

Originally Posted by Wm Holden

3.70 in cali...for a change

Wow, you're lower than here is WA, that's unusual. Hey, enjoy the price while you've got it.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

It isn't about getting around CAFE. The CAFE problem is in the process of solving itself. People are buying compacts instead of SUVs, meaning that companies that sell compacts can have inefficient trucks on their list. If GM sells more Cobalts, then the Silverado can have low fuel efficiency because the Cobalt will bring up the average. People moving from SUVs to compacts are actually improving GM's ratings.

Not quite.

The standard for 2020 is 35mpg average -- no manufacturer can hit that number today -- so there will be a lot of money and time invested by all manufacturers to hit that number.......and the price is staggering.

Think about this: what is a tradesman -- who requires a truck -- to do??

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Think about this: what is a tradesman -- who requires a truck -- to do??

Not to be a debbie downer here.. but the market right now is glutted with used trucks/suv's by the thousands at the cheapest prices in years (my rams value dropped from 8.5k to 4k in 3 months...). More than enough to get over this "hump" in the gas prices (personal opinion that there is no real decline.. we have plateaued but have yet to start on the downward slope of resources).

Also there is the small truck market, small trucks are becomming more and more popular. The problem is that even small trucks have been upsized to med/large... For instance the Tacoma and S-10(no under Colorado nameplate) have gained almost 25% in size.. I would be surprised if they don't lose that extra size in the next 5 years.

Edit - Its kind of funny to think that if Isuzu had lasted another 3-4 years they would be in the best possible position for the market, with small trucks and suv's

[JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR]

I'm so scared after reading about all this that you guys have been posting!!! When will oil run out? And after reading this CAFE stuff I'm mad that they're threatening V8's!!! If thats true at all...LoL From what I read thats what it seems like. Someone help me out to understand whats going on! I'm so clueless here...I know you guys are like "what an idiot" but just help me understand all of this stuff please! -JiXeR-

[JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Not quite.

The standard for 2020 is 35mpg average -- no manufacturer can hit that number today -- so there will be a lot of money and time invested by all manufacturers to hit that number.......and the price is staggering.

Think about this: what is a tradesman -- who requires a truck -- to do??

I guess get a small pick-up maybe huh...IDK I guess LoL

[mega]

unless you need the truck every day, a big truck that sits in the driveway until needed is not a bad investment right now

I've got a 2004 f150 lariat crew cab that's only used for towing and when we ride dirt bikes

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Not quite.

The standard for 2020 is 35mpg average -- no manufacturer can hit that number today -- so there will be a lot of money and time invested by all manufacturers to hit that number.......and the price is staggering.

Think about this: what is a tradesman -- who requires a truck -- to do??

That makes sense, It's a matter of spending resources to get you there over the next few years. And Not moving in the wrong direction with products that will reduce your overall MPG numbers.

I get it.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Not to be a debbie downer here.. but the market right now is glutted with used trucks/suv's by the thousands at the cheapest prices in years (my rams value dropped from 8.5k to 4k in 3 months...). More than enough to get over this "hump" in the gas prices (personal opinion that there is no real decline.. we have plateaued but have yet to start on the downward slope of resources).

Also there is the small truck market, small trucks are becomming more and more popular. The problem is that even small trucks have been upsized to med/large... For instance the Tacoma and S-10(no under Colorado nameplate) have gained almost 25% in size.. I would be surprised if they don't lose that extra size in the next 5 years.

Edit - Its kind of funny to think that if Isuzu had lasted another 3-4 years they would be in the best possible position for the market, with small trucks and suv's

What I was saying before was that people are moving more towards smaller vehicles. Diarmadhi pointed out that smaller trucks are becoming the major truck market and that bigger trucks are not selling. I've noticed a lot of marked down trucks and large, older vehicles for sale. They are worthless in this market because most people don't need to be able to tow a building as much as they may need a cab to carry supplies and equipment. Small trucks have capacities that used to only be available only on large trucks, so small trucks are desirable.

GM will learn to love small trucks because they represent a market compromise. They still live up to GM's truck heritage, but they get better fuel efficiency. Selling more small trucks and cutting back on large trucks will hurt GM's CAFE rating less than continuing to build large trucks. Many people who don't need trucks at all will get cars, and that will also help.

I have no idea how GM will get to its mandated 2020 rating, but I'm guessing that CAFE won't actually last that long. Maybe I'm just optimistic.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Not to be a debbie downer here.. but the market right now is glutted with used trucks/suv's by the thousands at the cheapest prices in years (my rams value dropped from 8.5k to 4k in 3 months...). More than enough to get over this "hump" in the gas prices (personal opinion that there is no real decline.. we have plateaued but have yet to start on the downward slope of resources).

Also there is the small truck market, small trucks are becomming more and more popular. The problem is that even small trucks have been upsized to med/large... For instance the Tacoma and S-10(no under Colorado nameplate) have gained almost 25% in size.. I would be surprised if they don't lose that extra size in the next 5 years.

Edit - Its kind of funny to think that if Isuzu had lasted another 3-4 years they would be in the best possible position for the market, with small trucks and suv's

Originally Posted by The_Blur

What I was saying before was that people are moving more towards smaller vehicles. Diarmadhi pointed out that smaller trucks are becoming the major truck market and that bigger trucks are not selling. I've noticed a lot of marked down trucks and large, older vehicles for sale. They are worthless in this market because most people don't need to be able to tow a building as much as they may need a cab to carry supplies and equipment. Small trucks have capacities that used to only be available only on large trucks, so small trucks are desirable.

GM will learn to love small trucks because they represent a market compromise. They still live up to GM's truck heritage, but they get better fuel efficiency. Selling more small trucks and cutting back on large trucks will hurt GM's CAFE rating less than continuing to build large trucks. Many people who don't need trucks at all will get cars, and that will also help.

I have no idea how GM will get to its mandated 2020 rating, but I'm guessing that CAFE won't actually last that long. Maybe I'm just optimistic.

I just noticed the Colorado is getting a 5.3 for 2009. That's pretty cool, IMHO, because I remember reading comments in 'rags about the 5-cylinder not having enough guts. I'd be down for a Colorado with a V8 because even though I love the new Silverado, I don't see needing a big half-ton for what I would need it for, day-to-day. I think this last summer has kinda' brought America back to reality and made many of us reconsider the vehicles we buy.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Not quite.

The standard for 2020 is 35mpg average -- no manufacturer can hit that number today -- so there will be a lot of money and time invested by all manufacturers to hit that number.......and the price is staggering.

Think about this: what is a tradesman -- who requires a truck -- to do??

Go back to using a horse and wagon I guess!! I'm one of those tradesmen (carpenter) with a lot of tools in my 20 Series Chevy van, with all of the weight I have to carry my gas mileage is extremely poor, but I don't see any way around it. I have to have all of those tools onboard as I don't know from day to day (or sometimes hour to hour) what I'll be needing, so I bite the bullet and buy the gas. And those tools will not fit into anything smaller than my present van.
Clyde

[fastball]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Not quite.

The standard for 2020 is 35mpg average -- no manufacturer can hit that number today -- so there will be a lot of money and time invested by all manufacturers to hit that number.......and the price is staggering.

Think about this: what is a tradesman -- who requires a truck -- to do??

I've already said this in another forum, but I've comitted to voting for anyone running AGAINST anyone who outright supports CAFE in it's current state.

I've emailed my reps and sentors (yeah, not much good came out, but they all have lost my vote)

I'm also trying to find the right GM lobbyists to drop my opinions to, so they may take them to congress (again, I doubt much good will come out of it, but since I am buying a GM vehicle I would hope at least a few dollars of my purchase goes to the salary of someone who can whisper into Pellosi's ear).

See Scott, I know you have challenged everyone on this forum to take action with our politicians. Well, I'm doing it, and I wonder how many others here are. The only way we can get CAFE altered to have less of an impact on the cars we want and love, and to keep the price down on them, is for all of us to take action, SERIOUS action, with our politicians.

Let me know what else I can do. PM me if there's alot that might go off topic. Give me specific email addresses, phone numbers, names. I don't want the tree huggers to win, and this is the first time in my life I've ever been politically motivated, simply because I love to drive, I love cool cars, and I love the internal combustion engine.

I want the Camaro to live on another 30 plus years, not with diluted engines and soft drivetrains.

They win if we ever see a 4cylinder Camaro again. Or a hybrid. Or some new fangled hydrogen ionizer under the hood.

6 or 8 cylinders of meticulously engineered aluminum are all that should ever reside between the front wheels of a Camaro.

[Tantalizer43]

Not to bring up and old topic, but I was wondering if anyone knew where our presidential candidates stand on CAFE?

I heard a good friend at Indy say be careful who you vote for in November.

Any insight?