Al O. believes ZL1 still faster

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by mgoodbar

After all, chevy has had 4 or 5 months to make some changes. just like ford now has a whole year to try to make the GT-500 hook at the track.

What are you talking about? The GT500 will likely be in owners hands soon after the ZL1 is in their owners hands, this summer. What is this year you are talking about? If I recall correctly, it was about 8 months from the time GM released info that it was building a ZL1 until we received any actual numbers on it. Ford released info on the 2013 GT500 in November, we still have a ways to go before we get any official numbers on it. Who knows, maybe the 650HP number is like the "more than 556HP" number GM gave us on the ZL1 which, BTW, ended up higher than expected at 580HP.. It would not surprise me in the least to see the GT500 making 700HP at the crank when it's all said and done.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by blackonblack2010

We are talking about the 13' GT500 and the 12' ZL1. Do a test with both base models and see what happens. The Gt500 with out the extra cost of the track pack that you don't get std and compare it to the base ZL1 that comes with evering thing.......... Lets go.

Since both vehicles are expected to be available in Summer 2012, an apples to apples comparison would be to compare a 2013 ZL1 and a 2013 GT500, equipped at the same dollar price point, if the 2013 GT500, in fact, will be available at the same price as a 2013 ZL1.

[GM4lyfe]

Originally Posted by mgoodbar

funny, wonder if the ZL1 is under rated like the mustang 5.0 and boss was..

It would be interesting to see some dyno run on a ZL1 and it put down 580 to the wheels....


After all, chevy has had 4 or 5 months to make some changes. just like ford now has a whole year to try to make the GT-500 hook at the track.


this is just going to go back and forward.. .. now chevy has to answer to the 5.0 and the 392 dodge.. give it a year and the SS will put down 50 more hp. and the ZL1 will have a LS9..

Nah, GM SAE certifies motors now. Plus I beleave its too late to make any changes to the car. Most likely they are already certified and whatnot.

[mgoodbar]

Originally Posted by GM4lyfe

Nah, GM SAE certifies motors now. Plus I beleave its too late to make any changes to the car. Most likely they are already certified and whatnot.

WEll, I can hope. Just read and did not know that the ZL1 still has a couple months before anyone gets their's... maybe they will use this couple months to bump the power some ...

[chain777]

Originally Posted by bpmurr

I think you'll be surprised. There is talk of Ford just dumping the "options" and bringing it as one package like GM is doing with the ZL1. Which I hope is the case because even though I had a 2011 GT500 with the SVTPP it irked me I had to pay even more for top performance.



My 2011 GT500 with SVTPP was around $53k MSRP and $48K plus tax out the door.

I really doubt they would drop the options and go with an all or nothing model. It's one of the selling points, and really, why wouldn't you want the option of A la carte? How is it a bad thing that you can equip the car the way you want? Why pay for options you don't want?

Originally Posted by gbosh

ZL1-Hood is designed to pull air off underside of front end as does the airfoil under the front end as well. In order for Ford to stay with the ZL1 on a track they need to copy the Chevy with a front pan under the car and a big change to the front of there car.
How is Ford going to copy this new car without looking like copy cats?

They don't need to copy it. Chevy didn't reinvent the wheel here.

Originally Posted by blackonblack2010

Exactly what I am trying to say. Test base GT500 to base ZL1 and see what happens. I have seen 2012 GT500s with the track pack for more than the base ZL1. I am sure the new 13' GT500 base price is going to start well into the 50k range.

So you want to compare a sub 50K car with one nearly 7K more? Are we talking bang for the buck?

The only way you're going to get an SVT PP GT500 to sticker more than a ZL1 is by adding three options you can't even get on a ZL1. 1. Navigation. 2. Glass roof. 3. Recaro's.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by mgoodbar

WEll, I can hope. Just read and did not know that the ZL1 still has a couple months before anyone gets their's... maybe they will use this couple months to bump the power some ...

First your comment on the gt500 then this. It is sometimes best to be quiet and leave them guessing.

FYI, the ZL1 is already in production and off the drawing board hence, they can't just now up the power or whatever.
Never mind. Your good, keep at it.

[GT5Junkie]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Since both vehicles are expected to be available in Summer 2012, an apples to apples comparison would be to compare a 2013 ZL1 and a 2013 GT500, equipped at the same dollar price point, if the 2013 GT500, in fact, will be available at the same price as a 2013 ZL1.

Sooooooooo, we can't compare 12 to 12, because the GT500 is cheaper, so that would be apples to oranges.

We can't compare 12 to 13, even if they release within 2 months of each other, because that would be apples and oranges.

We may not be able to compare 13 to 13, because the GT500 without the extra performance options may be cheaper, and with the extra performance options may be more expensive, and both of those scenarios would be apples to oranges.

This is getting very tricky.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

Sooooooooo, we can't compare 12 to 12, because the GT500 is cheaper, so that would be apples to oranges.

A 2012 GT500 equipped "similarly" to the 2012 ZL1 is priced roughly the same as the 2012 ZL1, so comparing a 2012 ZL1 to a 2012 GT500 would be an apples to apples comparison.

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

We can't compare 12 to 13, even if they release within 2 months of each other, because that would be apples and oranges.

They can be compared, but, yes, it would be an apples to oranges comparison.

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

We may not be able to compare 13 to 13, because the GT500 without the extra performance options may be cheaper, and with the extra performance options may be more expensive, and both of those scenarios would be apples to oranges.

Compare the 2013s equipped as closely as they can be equipped within given a price delta, and that would be an apples to apples comparison

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

This is getting very tricky.

It's really not that complicated.

[GT5Junkie]

What is the appropriate price delta?

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by gbosh

ZL1-Hood is designed to pull air off underside of front end as does the airfoil under the front end as well. In order for Ford to stay with the ZL1 on a track they need to copy the Chevy with a front pan under the car and a big change to the front of there car.
How is Ford going to copy this new car without looking like copy cats?

chevy invented aerodynamics?? The GT500 already has a pan under the car.

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

I hope it's not the case, because if you just want a street and strip terror, a lot of people won't want to pay 6 grand+ extra for electronic shocks, diff coolers, etc that won't really make a difference to them.

Most of these cars, both GT500 and ZL1, are not going to spend much time on twisty tracks. I think Chevy would have been smart to release a ZL1 without the added weight and expense of the MRC and all the coolers. That car with an auto tranny coulda come in close to 50k and been a strip terror. Instead it's gonna come in close to 60 and not really be any better on the street or the strip.

I agree, what ford has always done and a huge advantage its always had was the fact that they give customers options. You cant fault that either. Thats why there are so many unique mustangs out there and not cookie cutter "option A" and "option B" cars out there.

[IcePick06]

I still think the new GT500 will be more expensive than the Base ZL1. It's all about numbers; where can you get 650hp and 650 lbs/ft of torque for $54k? That will be unheard of if Ford does that and I think as the saying goes "you gotta pay to play". But assuming the Ford comes in close in MSRP to the ZL1, this new statement by Al O. may come back to haunt him if the 0-60 time by Ford is say 3.7 sec or better. Of course different mags and drivers will get different 0-60 times anyway so none of this matters IMHO or affects my buying decision or any logical consumer's buying decision. Maybe the skinnier tires still used on the GT500 have a lot to do with Al making such bold statements as we all know wider rubber helps with traction--but I still don't know why Ford is using the 285 rear instead of the 305. Anyway, for the consumer this type of competition is very good, and I think there are pros and cons for both cars so it really boils down to personal preference and what type of car you want for daily use or even trackdays...unless you are a Chevy/Ford Fanboy, then your choice becomes obvious

[Baltimorejohn1]

This subject just cracks me up because the race has already happened in essence.....

And the less horsepowered Camaro won the race....

There is a reason he is so confident....

[Baltimorejohn1]

When both cars get more horsepower the Camaro is just more planted and handles it much better....

[hightower]

That's a pretty interesting quote there. Still won't find anything out 'till the GT500 is actually out.