Import or not?

[The_Blur]

This is a big question. If I understand you correctly, you're asking if the car is truly American because GM is more than American.

Let's take a look at what makes an American car.

Historically, FR layout cars are American even though that layout began in Europe. When the Europeans got rid of their FR cars, America kept it's last muscle cars for as long as possible. It's important to note that such platforms were never canceled in Australia, so one could argue that the Camaro is Australian by engine-drive wheel layout.

In terms of styling, the Camaro is very American. Japanese cars tend to have a more rounded, shorter shape that became popular for compacts. European cars maintain either a sharp triangular or rounded quadrilateral shape. For example, Italian sports cars set the triangular standard while BMW and Mercedes have more square and rectangle cues with rounded headlights. The Camaro is strictly based upon sharp rectangular shapes with wheel wells that do not favor the front or rear noticeably. The dash screams American classic with the divided center console. Unlike most modern cars, the Camaro will feature a dash where attention is drawn to the bottom and top, away from the middle which will consist of a smooth, flat shape. Below, the radio and AC controls will look unique and eye-catching. Above, the concept features a splash of Hugger Orange that makes its way around to the doors. If you pay close attention, you'll notice how the 4-gauge pod acts as a divider between the dash and the center console, which in all other countries is not divided. That shape is genuinely American.

The doors are neutral. Any sports car has cool doors.

The headlights look like classic Camaro headlights. The tails have the same effect, with a modern twist. The grill is tough and aggressive. Americans love to look tough and aggressive. Let's not dwell on that since none of our allies seem to favor that attribute.

Lastly, in the power department, the Camaro will be competitive. This isn't some point-A-to-point-B car. This is a show on wheels. The engine will roar, albeit quieter that the classics due to regulations and to get some more buyers, but nonetheless it will scream power. They won't announce the engine so that GM can compete. It will beat a Mustang. That's an American goal. It will scare small children. That's an American attitude.

All in all, the new Camaro is genuinely American. There are cues from all over the world, but where the car is literally built is not where its soul is derived. The Camaro is American in all the ways American classics should be.

[VaporS197]

You should write a book, Blur - that was really good. There was probably some obstensible arrogance with me posting this thread, but that's really what it boils down to: is the new Camaro American - enough?

Maybe I just wanted a little more reassurance. I wonder all the time why America just can't (I say won't) make cars that can compete with the world's best from Germany and Japan.

[Design1stCode2nd]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

read my comment about the Malibu..."across the board": don't worry - it's not over.

I hope they do. They have done a lot in the past couple of years but they are fighting a great deal of neglect and complacency built up over many years.

As far as brands we have Saturn, Chevy, Pontiac which have cars based on the same platform that compete in the same market space. And Buick the current average for Buick dealers is 8 units per month, 8! GM could easily get away with only 4 brands (Chevy, Cadillac, GMC/Hummer, Pontiac), hell the Japanese do it with 2-3 with 1/4 the dealerships and yet Toyota is now ranked the 2nd in US auto sales above Ford.

[3whiterag]

Originally Posted by VaporS197

If it's so interesting to you guys, why don't you tell us what you think?

Okay, you asked me to. First of all, look at my profile info in the top left corner of my posts and you should be able to figure out how I feel.
Now, There has been some very obvioulsy thought out responses. My feelings are this. If the profits from the company, stay in North America, then I would say it is an American Company. Also, make no mistake about it, because a Honda or a Toyota or a Nissan is built in America, it does not mean that it is manufactured in America. I prefer to think of them as being Assembled here. Big difference! Most of their parts are imported into America and they have very little North American content, whereas the top three for instance have a very high percentage of American manufactured goods or components in their product. The F-Bodfather wrote an article a while back that had all kinds of data and stats with regards to this and I hope if he reads this thread he will repost it. Also, consider the name General Motors. Think about what it means. To me, it means it is the amalgamation of various automotive companies, some of which were Canadian companies such as McLaughlin and Reo to name a couple.
The New Camaro is the result of GM employees and their labour. Why were they in Australia? Because the facilites were already there. Why reinvent something when it is not necessary.
Hope that helps explain my position and now down to more serious business. I hope you sell that mustang and join the brite side when the time comes!

[3whiterag]

Originally Posted by VaporS197

You should write a book, Blur - that was really good. There was probably some obstensible arrogance with me posting this thread, but that's really what it boils down to: is the new Camaro American - enough?

Maybe I just wanted a little more reassurance. I wonder all the time why America just can't (I say won't) make cars that can compete with the world's best from Germany and Japan.

We are competing with Germany and Japan, it is just your perception that we are not!
This is the problem that GM is Facing. The publics perception of General Motors products is outdated. We did not lose the consumers trust over night and we will not get it back over night either. Time and time again over the last number of years GM has proven that our quality and value is equal to or better than the imports. When I get back to work tomorrow, I will provide a link to show the awards that GM has won.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 3whiterag

We are competing with Germany and Japan, it is just your perception that we are not!
This is the problem that GM is Facing. The publics perception of General Motors products is outdated. We did not lose the consumers trust over night and we will not get it back over night either. Time and time again over the last number of years GM has proven that our quality and value is equal to or better than the imports. When I get back to work tomorrow, I will provide a link to show the awards that GM has won.

[VaporS197]

Well as I've said before, I'm not trying to make any waves or burst any bubbles or beat my chest as a fat, dumb and proud American or hurt any one's feelings. I'm certainly not trying to insult anyone.

But I am very much interested in things like this, regarding where things come from, and what they mean. I'm very much a patriotic American. I like very American things. But I was also raised in Japan for years, I travel to Europe whenever I can. I love Belgian beer. I'm an English soccer fan.

American cars? Well I like them to be American. I may have started this thread to find out what about them I love. Already some of you guys have made some great points and I'm not narrowminded enough to ignore them.

And while I don't think America is the world's savior, I do feel like it is the best place on Earth. I'm not trying to shit on Canada, or any other country.

I already said I love, so far, everything about this car. While I love my Mustang more than any other car out there it is because this Camaro isn't here yet. But I wanted to know if the car was going to be more American than American. That probably doesn't make any sense, and I seem to ask more questions that I get answers for, but I figured I could throw it out there and see what Camarophiles think.

[3whiterag]

Originally Posted by VaporS197

Well as I've said before, I'm not trying to make any waves or burst any bubbles or beat my chest as a fat, dumb and proud American or hurt any one's feelings. I'm certainly not trying to insult anyone.

But I am very much interested in things like this, regarding where things come from, and what they mean. I'm very much a patriotic American. I like very American things. But I was also raised in Japan for years, I travel to Europe whenever I can. I love Belgian beer. I'm an English soccer fan.

American cars? Well I like them to be American. I may have started this thread to find out what about them I love. Already some of you guys have made some great points and I'm not narrowminded enough to ignore them.

And while I don't think America is the world's savior, I do feel like it is the best place on Earth. I'm not trying to shit on Canada, or any other country.

I already said I love, so far, everything about this car. While I love my Mustang more than any other car out there it is because this Camaro isn't here yet. But I wanted to know if the car was going to be more American than American. That probably doesn't make any sense, and I seem to ask more questions that I get answers for, but I figured I could throw it out there and see what Camarophiles think.

K, Hope you got your answer from a lot of very passionate people!

[VaporS197]

Originally Posted by 3whiterag

We are competing with Germany and Japan, it is just your perception that we are not!
This is the problem that GM is Facing. The publics perception of General Motors products is outdated. We did not lose the consumers trust over night and we will not get it back over night either. Time and time again over the last number of years GM has proven that our quality and value is equal to or better than the imports. When I get back to work tomorrow, I will provide a link to show the awards that GM has won.

That is good news. I had secretly always believed this (at least in the last 7 years) but it's good to see that some people know this to be truth. Well it's good to know...

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by VaporS197

Well as I've said before, I'm not trying to make any waves or burst any bubbles or beat my chest as a fat, dumb and proud American or hurt any one's feelings. I'm certainly not trying to insult anyone.

I don't think anybody who participated in this thread thinks that of you. Like I said in the begining - this particular topic has been discussed before; it's a passionate issue, bound to have been brought up again.

but don't think this is the end...you're probably going to get a few more answers after this.

[VaporS197]

One more thing, I never insinuated that I think I Americans deserve this car more than any other people, if I came off that way. I'm not a bigot. This was a personal question for me, not to pass judgment on any other people.

I will mention it no more haha... it was cool talking about this car, though. I am one in a long line of fans that cannot wait for this car. If I don't get one, I will be excited just to see them on the streets.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I don't think anybody who participated in this thread thinks that of you. Like I said in the begining - this particular topic has been discussed before; it's a passionate issue, bound to have been brought up again.

but don't think this is the end...you're probably going to get a few more answers after this.

I have no doubts

It's all good. I've learned a couple of things, so I say bring it!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by VaporS197

You should write a book, Blur - that was really good. There was probably some obstensible arrogance with me posting this thread, but that's really what it boils down to: is the new Camaro American - enough?

Maybe I just wanted a little more reassurance. I wonder all the time why America just can't (I say won't) make cars that can compete with the world's best from Germany and Japan.

They do, the Corvette beats everything in its class, the CTS holds its own agains the Germans, Buick is on the same level as Lexus, the Cobalt SS Supercharged will outperform a Civic Si for less while getting better mileage, GM full sized pickups are better than their Japanesse counterparts on nearly all levels. And it goes on

[3whiterag]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

They do, the Corvette beats everything in its class, the CTS holds its own agains the Germans, Buick is on the same level as Lexus, the Cobalt SS Supercharged will outperform a Civic Si for less while getting better mileage, GM full sized pickups are better than their Japanesse counterparts on nearly all levels. And it goes on

Did I mention that we build the Corvette Engines and the HFV6 engines that are in a lot of high end GM vehicles, Ahem! as well as truck engines. Hopefully we will once again build the engine for the Camaro!

[VaporS197]

Who builds the engine then?