Long Tube Header Crazy Dyno Claims Wearing Me Out!

[Bo White]

I was there about a month ago. Its a good drive, about an hour from New Mexico.

[JAX CAMARO]

Happy with my ARH

[ackeight]

Originally Posted by driyac

Question here. Why has no one created a larger than 2" header? such as a 2-1/4 or even 2-1/2? Just for shitz and giggles kind of question.

Major engine bay fabrication would be required. My 2" is a snug fit.

[rockrau]

Pleeeeese do it!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll be in the market come January!

[Mydivorcegift]

Originally Posted by rockrau

Pleeeeese do it!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll be in the market January!

Not to speak for him but...

I think Jason is all for it...

It will be whether or not all of the other Manufacturers/vendors want to step up and comp some headers for the betterment of the Camaro community...

[thahemp]

I'd love to drive down and help out, but you don't need my headers to test. Perfectly happy with my TSPs. I'd still love to drive down and make a day of it.

Everyone is so mistrusting and entrenched. TSP won't blow smoke up your ass because they don't need to in order to turn a profit. If you own the equipment and manufacture your own product (for the most part), then your business succeeds on its own merit. There is a thread around here somewhere that shows the inside of TSPs facility. They aren't dicking around. It was full of CNC machines and metalworking equipment. They are vertically integrated nicely.

Do the testing (please!)... we will do our part to make sure the bullshit is squashed when the paranoid schizophrenics show up.

[nyrfan]

For those questioning made in USA and why I purchased ARH!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313194


Sent from my 2SS/RS

[chef-beavis]

Someday I'll be in the market but we all have to realize there will never be an apples to apples direct comparison because you have to tune a motor for each change. Just because you can get an engine to run at absolute optimum with one header doesn't mean you then switch the header, run it, and compare A and B. Once you touch the tune, all bets are off; and I'm not even getting into an argument that a tuner could have an agenda. There is too much possibility of the run varying by a couple percent, which likely equals the difference in most cases. It will vary based on tune and dyno tolerances. I've tuned my Harley numerous times. Always more to be found if you have time and money to keep pulling.

Even if you could step past that, as soon as you swap a cam, an intake, heads, etc., all bets are off and you need it to start all over again for your exact combo. Every engine is unique and will respond differently. Heck, even the tolerances from the factory produce ringers and gimps.

There is no set answer. Ever. You need to select your best choice based on the many variables discussed here and get it all tuned and be happy when you are done.

[SSeniorMoment]

Originally Posted by chef-beavis

Someday I'll be in the market but we all have to realize there will never be an apples to apples direct comparison because you have to tune a motor for each change. Just because you can get an engine to run at absolute optimum with one header doesn't mean you then switch the header, run it, and compare A and B. Once you touch the tune, all bets are off; and I'm not even getting into an argument that a tuner could have an agenda. There is too much possibility of the run varying by a couple percent, which likely equals the difference in most cases. It will vary based on tune and dyno tolerances. I've tuned my Harley numerous times. Always more to be found if you have time and money to keep pulling.

Even if you could step past that, as soon as you swap a cam, an intake, heads, etc., all bets are off and you need it to start all over again for your exact combo. Every engine is unique and will respond differently. Heck, even the tolerances from the factory produce ringers and gimps.

There is no set answer. Ever. You need to select your best choice based on the many variables discussed here and get it all tuned and be happy when you are done.

Very well thought out and written. I chose Pfadt w/high flow cats, there are more external/internal engine upgrades to follow and I can't see doing a tune or chassis dyno after each improvement, IMHO.

[Mydivorcegift]

Originally Posted by chef-beavis

Someday I'll be in the market but we all have to realize there will never be an apples to apples direct comparison because you have to tune a motor for each change. Just because you can get an engine to run at absolute optimum with one header doesn't mean you then switch the header, run it, and compare A and B. Once you touch the tune, all bets are off; and I'm not even getting into an argument that a tuner could have an agenda. There is too much possibility of the run varying by a couple percent, which likely equals the difference in most cases. It will vary based on tune and dyno tolerances. I've tuned my Harley numerous times. Always more to be found if you have time and money to keep pulling.

Even if you could step past that, as soon as you swap a cam, an intake, heads, etc., all bets are off and you need it to start all over again for your exact combo. Every engine is unique and will respond differently. Heck, even the tolerances from the factory produce ringers and gimps.

There is no set answer. Ever. You need to select your best choice based on the many variables discussed here and get it all tuned and be happy when you are done.

I disagree.

Someone's tuning ability is very different than seeing how an out of the box header will preform on a stock LS3 engine.

Hell I have had one car tuned by 4 different people. 2 of them very large shops and sponsors on here. (One of them even listed on this page). To hear them say none of them knew WTF the prior one was doing. I don't agree with that but...like headers...not all tuners are created equal.

[chef-beavis]

Originally Posted by Mydivorcegift

I disagree.

Someone's tuning ability is very different than seeing how an out of the box header will preform on a stock LS3 engine.

Hell I have had one car tuned by 4 different people. 2 of them very large shops and sponsors on here. (One of them even listed on this page). To hear them say none of them knew WTF the prior one was doing. I don't agree with that but...like headers...not all tuners are created equal.

I think you missed my point. Most poeple do not improve exhaust and intake without tuning the car. Even the same tuner on a motor back-to-back will likely make adjustments to optimize the tune for each set of headers, because you've altered the flow.

If you want to try four sets of headers and compare results of A, B, C, & D without touching the tune, it will give the answer for THAT engine with no tune. Engine number 2 with the factory tune, but built to the opposite end of a tolerance extreme may triumph with a different pair than engine number 1. The same engine with a tune may do best with header C, even if no tune was best with header A.

Unless the tuner is the most honest, patient Job on the planet and truly dumps his best at every effort at every combo, you have his best answer, not THE answer. Even then, it's THE answer for THAT engine.

My post had nothing to do with the tuner or his abilities.

[GearBangr]

Count me in guys, sounds like a great time. Id be more than happy to make the short drive from Amarillo to help. If it helps, Im an ASE Master L1 tech, so some credibility there.

[ARES5]

What with that and this ?*~#
Alls I know I just installed my new Pfadt headers yesterday and its hard to find traction at WOT starting @ about 3500 rpms and up Never had that raw power before.

Previous modds : R2C cai , Borla Atak axleback, Summit X pipe resonator delete and no tune yet.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by chef-beavis

I think you missed my point. Most poeple do not improve exhaust and intake without tuning the car. Even the same tuner on a motor back-to-back will likely make adjustments to optimize the tune for each set of headers, because you've altered the flow.

If you want to try four sets of headers and compare results of A, B, C, & D without touching the tune, it will give the answer for THAT engine with no tune. Engine number 2 with the factory tune, but built to the opposite end of a tolerance extreme may triumph with a different pair than engine number 1. The same engine with a tune may do best with header C, even if no tune was best with header A.

Unless the tuner is the most honest, patient Job on the planet and truly dumps his best at every effort at every combo, you have his best answer, not THE answer. Even then, it's THE answer for THAT engine.

My post had nothing to do with the tuner or his abilities.

Not necessarily. You're making it sound like the tuner is going to test one header/tune like 15 times and then get lazy as he tests the rest of them. That doesn't happen. And no matter what you do, no engine is going to keep making more and more power as you continually alter a tune. If that were so we'd all have like 10 million hp on stock engines. It doesn't work that way. And even if a small amount of hp can be squeezed out or is left on the table, that amount won't be significant at all. And it certainly won't be decisive in any individual decision to purchase one brand over another. We all know that a certain amount of hp can be attributable to any given pull. Or even a difference in collector length, bends in the header, smoothness of the openings, variances in the tune, temps and humidity, etc. So even if you are correct, and one tune on brand Y is more optimal than a tune on brand X causing brand Y to make more power than brand X, that amount will probably be like 5 hp IF that. We all know enough that we're not gonna sing praises if SW headers makes 5 hp more than TSP headers. We will know that they are both within the norm for that particular size. Plus, this test is not really to compare one header to another, it seems like it is more to compare the actual real world gains to the advertised manufacturers claims.