Long Tube Header Crazy Dyno Claims Wearing Me Out!

[TBone]

Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA

I can tell you there are companies that do claim to be USA & using stainless from overseas.

All I'm saying is if you guys want to do this lets get a bunch of respected members of camaro5 to do it with me. That way when all the long tubes make very similar price even though some are $400 & some are $1000 nobody will shoot me and call me a liar. :P

I just don't like smoke & mirrors. If I tell you the VVT4 camshaft makes 100 flywheel hp its because it does. I'll put it on the dyno anytime & prove it.

When someone claim there header can throw a football over those mountains only to find the customers don't see those results unless they were magically installed at the shops facility it just gets old....

It is also a WHOLE (HOLE?) lot easier to believe someone who has a brick and mortar business that actually installs those parts and has shop cars as opposed to someone who doesn't. There are vendors on here, I am not naming names but some of you are smart enough to figure it out, who have great prices but have no shop, shop car but have some write ups and pretty things to distract you. When you call for technical support they are stumped. Yet you look at their website and they have NO physical address. Hmmmm I wonder how they get their information?? Off the backs of people like Jason and others, or Wiki .

Buyer beware!! Do not get HESSed, do your homework.

T.

[CGT]

Originally Posted by litle88

I just hope this offer doesn't end up like the cam test he did. Jason said it was no gains, but called him a liar pretty much cause some morons said the graph showed differently.

Like Tbone said, why risk ALL OF his respect and integrity after all these years in the LsX community even sponsoring them and lie about a damn header?

LOL. The graph DID show differently. Thats not calling Jason a liar, It was really cool of Jason to take the time to do a test that didnt benefit him in any way. Jason possibly wasnt concerned about interpreting the graph to a tee for people that cant figure a simple graph out. Or the graph was incorrect. Either way, it was nice gesture from Jason and Texas Speed.

[Country Boy]

Originally Posted by nyrfan

I purchased ARH headers and could not be happier. Did I overpay, not in my eyes. I got a quality made product made 100% in the USA. Whenever I can buy something made in the USA instead of some cheap, foreign build product I will. I want my dollar to stay in the USA whenever it can, more people should do the same instead of trying to saving a few dollars. If more did that we'd have better quality products and more US jobs!!

Thats understandable, but you might wanna check where they source their stainless tubing. Problem is 99% of anything you buy is not made here.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It isn't always about extra hp. People spend more money for particular brands because they want the best quality or they are more comfortable with that brand or for many different reasons. I agree that for each size header there probably isn't any significant difference in power between all the different brands. But the difference in quality and finish is definitely recognizable. Is it worth an extra few hundred dollars? Not to me. But it is absolutely worth it to others. Even if there aren't any extra gains over a cheaper brand. It isn't always about price and hp. Some people show their car and need nicer looking headers. Some people race their car and want top quality well-known and respected brands. Others just want whatever is the best brand. Nothing wrong with any of that. And there is nothing wrong with those of us who just wanted a nice set of headers that didn't cost more than a few hundred dollars.

Not always the case. Back in 2002, I did way over pay for a set of Kooks 1 7/8" headers for my LS1 and they were the WORST fitting header I had seen. I had to actually shim the pass. motor mount and smash in one of the primaries and even still they sat on top of the K-member and almost rubbed a hole in them. I took pics, emailed and called many times and got ZERO help. Not even a call back. Just because you pay for a name, doesn't mean its better. Another example is I have LPP stainless LTs on my truck. Fit perfect, have 160k trouble free miles and are 321 stainless, not kitchen sink 304 . They were also 1/3 the cost of big name brands. Would I buy a brand like OBX, no, but just because you're putting $1k profit in someones hands, doesn't make it better.

Sent from my S-fo'.

[Orange Crush 1LE]

Originally Posted by Piccione Performance

Back in 2010 when I was working at 2Edge we did a comparison with 11 different sets of Long Tubes with hi-flow cats for a certain GM oriented magazine, 1 Camaro, 2 days, stock car, weather in the mid 70's and a dyno. We saw as much as 44 hp on the high end and as little as 18 hp.
The article never went to press since 3 of the companies were major advertisers and came in on the low side.
The more expensive sets made the most power and fit the nicest. Some of the cheap sets took us up to 45 minute longer to install do to less than perfect fitment. There is a lot to be said for the performance and quality of the more expensive units.
I will not say which ones were the best then as I am not here to promote any one company, but what I am saying is that the good ones are not cheap.
Deal with reputable shops, if they have a dyno some will save copies of before and after dyno sheets on previous installs.

Good perspective, thanks for sharing. It's surprising the HP spread was so large. I paid for one of the high end brand longtubes, and I let the installation shop choose. They've done lots of Camaros and are known for getting lots of power. Plus they should know better than anyone what fits best. I don't mind paying for quality and fitment. Installation will happen in a couple of weeks.

Nothing worse than cheap headers. It took me hours to install longtubes in my '95 Camaro back in the day. Nightmare. Lots of bending, denting, tweaking. And they kept blowing gaskets. Now I only go with quality.

[Bo White]

Also, Jason, while we are on the dyno we can test everyone's heads and cams.
If your going to kick over an ant bed might as well throw some ants in it from another bed.

[litle88]

Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA

I can tell you there are companies that do claim to be USA & using stainless from overseas.

All I'm saying is if you guys want to do this lets get a bunch of respected members of camaro5 to do it with me. That way when all the long tubes make very similar price even though some are $400 & some are $1000 nobody will shoot me and call me a liar. :P

I just don't like smoke & mirrors. If I tell you the VVT4 camshaft makes 100 flywheel hp its because it does. I'll put it on the dyno anytime & prove it.

When someone claim there header can throw a football over those mountains only to find the customers don't see those results unless they were magically installed at the shops facility it just gets old....

If we can do it on the weekend like a mid afternoon Friday or early Saturday I can maybe find a flight down there!

[Bo White]

First annual camaro5test......

[The Circle]

Originally Posted by Deezee

I heard on the Internet that a 3" header gains 100whp!!

It would be cool to see this test done for sure!

Originally Posted by Inferno LS3

This reminds me of one of the BEST threads on Camaro5. Was the Hess Motorsports claim that Bassani headers was +100 RWHP gain. If turned into a joke-a-thon. Was hilarious, as they stood behind their claims till Doc installed and paid for dyno time out of his pocket and guess what? Not even close to +100RWHP. CLASSIC

Originally Posted by TBone

Look people, Jason is offering to do this on an ENGINE dyno with WITNESS' from OUR OWN COMMUNITY. Sure, he makes headers but he will not be able to fudge numbers with folks that know what they are doing looking over his shoulder. Do you honestly think if Little88, Camarojt or Nightmare2012 is standing over his shoulder they are going to let him get away with anything? They would bust his balls in a HEARTBEAT!!!!!!! Hell, put a video camera in the room and record the whole phucking thing if anyone is worried about it. Any hijinks will be caught on camera!!!!!

Some of you folks are way too cynical. Jason is offering to do this on his own dime.

Will the header companies step up? Only time will tell.

Jason, I say go for it. I trust your integrity.

T.

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

It won't happen...look what JRE had to do to do this years ago.
I say everyone is close...shop smart. Don't spend $1400 on something that gets u the same gains as $500.

Originally Posted by litle88

I just hope this offer doesn't end up like the cam test he did. Jason said it was no gains, but called him a liar pretty much cause some morons said the graph showed differently.

Like Tbone said, why risk ALL OF his respect and integrity after all these years in the LsX community even sponsoring them and lie about a damn header?

Originally Posted by Rhino79

My suggestion to those people would be to build a bridge and get over it. Lol

Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA

I can tell you there are companies that do claim to be USA & using stainless from overseas.

All I'm saying is if you guys want to do this lets get a bunch of respected members of camaro5 to do it with me. That way when all the long tubes make very similar price even though some are $400 & some are $1000 nobody will shoot me and call me a liar. :P

I just don't like smoke & mirrors. If I tell you the VVT4 camshaft makes 100 flywheel hp its because it does. I'll put it on the dyno anytime & prove it.

When someone claim there header can throw a football over those mountains only to find the customers don't see those results unless they were magically installed at the shops facility it just gets old....

We approve of these posts.

And having members in your area we might be able to get another attendee to validate this test.

[Nightmare2012]

and on mid october so that weather wont be a factor!

[Bo White]

I say the last week of December so I'll already be off work.

[driyac]

Question here. Why has no one created a larger than 2" header? such as a 2-1/4 or even 2-1/2? Just for shitz and giggles kind of question.

[PQ]

I have Borla. 1 3/4 inch primaries. I'd liked to have 1 7/8 but I got way too good a deal on these.

What part of Texas are you guys in?

[Nightmare2012]

Lubbock pq

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Nightmare2012

Lubbock pq

Ah. Kinda far for me. hahaha

Interested in the results though for sure.