2010 Camaro V6 vs 2009 GTI

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by ironpeddler

I swear if you are a camaro fan/owner you can say whatever you want on these boards. You can disrespect people/their car/whatever you want all day long and nothing happens. I could put down a whole slew of names of people who swear all the time, disrespect people and what they say all the time and they just keep doing it. But if it's not a camaro fanboi/owner/whatever you can't say a darn thing without getting a little mark up by your name or a mod coming and posting the rules about disrespect or whatever...lol.

The dude is 18, give him a break. I wish I had a VW GTI when I was 18. Now I'm 28 and have a brand new gt500. When this guy is 28 he will probably drive a porsche or something. Why gang up on him because of his ride? VW's are not bad cars by any means. I do not know much about the VW GTI but the maro V6 and the VW GTI is probably a pretty fair comparison.

And who honestly associates an old VW beetle when they think of Porsche? Seriously...

Thank you

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by SWAT 79

Agreed with peddler. Seriously 2ss, what's your problem?


You put a plastic off color body kit on a camaro. AND its an automatic, and you're gonna rip on a kid for driving a gti?

Thank you to you too

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I believe Mr. CC invited some negative replies when he made definitive statements that were grossly in error. As someone else pointed out, there are several examples of Porsche being compared to Chevy. And several examples of BMW being compared to Cadillacs and G8s. In fact, I have R&T's dating back to the C4 vs Porsche comparos in storage.

The whole topic went WAY south here a while ago, mainly from fanboi'ism (I've done it myself and learned from it).

VW people often make the error of convincing themselves that they are in a junior Audi, and then they believe the Audi they are junior to is the s4 instead of the more pedestrian a3.

Other things:

1st off, I have a huge Porsche hard-on and I think of VWs everytime I see a 356. And not in a bad way- I would love to own 1 (the 356-not the bug).

Chevrolet has a VERY rich racing tradition. It seems to get discounted completely by the Germanophiles. They've backed off in recent years but Chevrolet has been involved in all sorts of racing from dirt track to Nascar to Le Mans and NHRA. There's no definitive proof of this I could find, but I could make a pretty good case that over the last 50 years Chevrolet has had more engines in race cars than any other marque.

Germans do have some pretty nicely engineered cars. I'm not sure why anyone would argue otherwise except to poke CC with a stick. Although 'the best handling' cars was wrong (and I agree), if the statement was 'the best handling cars without bare aluminum floorboards' you'd have to admit the Germans are right there in the thick of it.

Another HUGE common error: German cars are expensive because of expensive engineering (except Porsche, which we'll discuss separately). German cars are expensive because of several factors: Euro vs Dollar, Shipping, Tax structures on vehicle below certain us part contents, guzzler taxes in some cases, etc. People often fail to realize that a ZR1 costs $214,000 in Europe!!!! So apparently American engineering is incredibly expensive- in Europe.

Sorry for the book.

*edit* oh ya, Porsche. Until the middle of 2009 and the car crash- Porsche was the most profitable per car automaker in the world. No insult to Porsche engineering, but Porsche's expense is a very carefully crafted balance between engineering and image. They have positioned themselves pricewise as the bargain exotic and can demand some pretty solid prices because of it.

By my comparison statement, I didn't mean it in the racing magazine world, I meant it in the real world. If you go to a party in a Corvette, you don't get nearly the same respect as if you go in a Porsche. That plain and simple is a fact.
And by the best handling cars statement, I meant that in terms of production cars, not cars that have been gutted out for the track.

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by 2SSARME

I fail to see what's so bad about automatics. The fastest stock time is on a L99.

I drive in traffic. I don't want to be playing with the clutch and shift every 3 seconds. If I want to drive "manual" i just switch to my paddle shifters. I have more fun than you can imagine.

You must not have driven a manual if you find your paddle shifters to be comparable to a real manual. You sound like a car brochure right now. And I would understand if you were talking about a dual clutch automatic, like that of VW, Audi, Porsche, and Mitsubishi, which truly are superior to any manual transmission, but you have a regular slushbox. Oh, and I drive manual, btw.
Either you're old, or you can't drive manual. What kind of traffic is there in oklahoma?

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by KoTToN

Nope cant say I am. However I am reminded of these when someone mentions porsche




Wow congrats to Audi for effectivly tweaking an age old 4wd system and giving it a new name! Brilliant!



you got us there

oh wait
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6594
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._handling.html
http://motortrend.automotive.com/946...n-g/index.html

btw chevy wins most of them



i have driven both...guess im a slow learner?

You said nothing that was worth being responded to

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by MontyCarlo

Ironically, this post is not constructive, not helpful, and sucks at being an insult.

Actually, I found it to be pretty funny.

[KoTToN]

Originally Posted by returnofcc

You said nothing that was worth being responded to

thats probably because it was a response to a quote from one of your post, which was in fact worthless.

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by KoTToN

thats probably because it was a response to a quote from one of your post, which was in fact worthless.

Ok, I said porsche and BMW are the best handling cars, and you said "def not true." Wow, that was a great response, care to explain?

Then I said that Audi was the inventor of the drivetrain, which was slightly skewed, but nonetheless, Audi is credited with having the most superior awd system in the consumer world...

You posted a picture of a beetle, which made no sense.
Then you posted some magazine articles which take every little measurement and do serious testing and then claim to know the superior car. Please, at the end of the test, ask the testers that if they could have one car, which one would they take?

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by returnofcc

Ok, I said porsche and BMW are the best handling cars, and you said "def not true." Wow, that was a great response, care to explain?

Then I said that Audi was the inventor of the drivetrain, which was slightly skewed, but nonetheless, Audi is credited with having the most superior awd system in the consumer world...

You posted a picture of a beetle, which made no sense.
Then you posted some magazine articles which take every little measurement and do serious testing and then claim to know the superior car. Please, at the end of the test, ask the testers that if they could have one car, which one would they take?

Not to nit pick, but the best AWD system's (yes I know who owns Lambo) come with Lambo's and the GTR

[KoTToN]

Originally Posted by returnofcc

Ok, I said porsche and BMW are the best handling cars, and you said "def not true." Wow, that was a great response, care to explain?

Short answer would be the fact that within the top 10 times posted at the Nurburgring (which seems to be the norm benchmark for handling) there is only one german car, and its The Gumpert Apollo. The funny part is that the zr1 is, which is a production car that is not a stripped down race version.

Then I said that Audi was the inventor of the drivetrain, which was slightly skewed, but nonetheless, Audi is credited with having the most superior awd system in the consumer world...

Well it seems that youre not even sure what your trying to say here so ill leave it alone.

You posted a picture of a beetle, which made no sense.

i guess you dont know your history

Then you posted some magazine articles which take every little measurement and do serious testing and then claim to know the superior car.

so... how exactly does this discredit the reviews....?

Please, at the end of the test, ask the testers that if they could have one car, which one would they take?

so screw the testing of those stupid numbers, specs, and times. Lets ask people their personal opinions to see who wins?

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by KoTToN

Short answer would be the fact that within the top 10 times posted at the Nurburgring (which seems to be the norm benchmark for handling) there is only one german car, and its The Gumpert Apollo. The funny part is that the zr1 is, which is a production car that is not a stripped down race version.



Well it seems that youre not even sure what your trying to say here so ill leave it alone.


i guess you dont know your history


so... how exactly does this discredit the reviews....?



so screw the testing of those stupid numbers, specs, and times. Lets ask people their personal opinions to see who wins?

Ok - I'll play devils advocate here.


On one side: yes. The ZR1 is a better performance car than anything Porsche currently offers (the GT3 RS has yet to be tested as far as I know). If you play the numbers game (which is the only reliable game to play unless you've driven both cars and have a personal opinion.) The ZR1 will win. It isn't more focused, but it does have some advantages which bring it out on top... such as much more hp, better engine layout, etc...

On the other side, People who know Porsche know that the car isn't built for numbers (hell if you go to their site, they have 0-60 figures which are much SLOWER than real world). A Porsche 911 of any variant is built for ENJOYMENT. That's all folks.

Why does Porsche continue to build 911's with a faulty engine layout (Rear-Engine) and don't say tradition, because tradition didn't exist 20 years ago when they could have EASILY switched back. The reason is how rewarding the 911 is to drive hard. That's not something that can be measured in numbers, and it's not something that everyone will agree on... its subjective. High hp high revving V8 or low down torque Twin turbo? subjective. The handling on the Porsche... though not 'the best in the world' is responsive and direct, without the weight of the engine over the front wheels there will always be a lighter feel.

Is the ZR1 a better performance car than the 911 GT2/3? Yes. Is it a better car because of that? No. Not to a lot of people.

Is this thread about the ZR1 Or 911? no. completely off topic post on my part.

[KoTToN]

I agree with everything you said zeus, I know the porsche is a great car and probably a blast to drive.

But would that justify saying "Germans make the BEST handling cars" ? Nope

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by KoTToN

Short answer would be the fact that within the top 10 times posted at the Nurburgring (which seems to be the norm benchmark for handling) there is only one german car, and its The Gumpert Apollo. The funny part is that the zr1 is, which is a production car that is not a stripped down race version.



Well it seems that youre not even sure what your trying to say here so ill leave it alone.


i guess you dont know your history


so... how exactly does this discredit the reviews....?



so screw the testing of those stupid numbers, specs, and times. Lets ask people their personal opinions to see who wins?

No, because the time around a track factors in more than just handling. The only true way to measure handling is lateral acceleration, and for that, the ZR1 and the 911 gt2 are equivalent.
By the beetle thing, I meant that nobody thinks of a beetle when you hear the term "Porsche," even if it was built by Dr. Ferdinand, so it didn't really make any sense, you were just trying to flame my post.
I wasn't trying to discredit the reviews, I was saying that they are pointless. Congratulations, the Corvette hit 200mph, the Porsche hit 199, so now nobody should buy the Porsche, everybody go buy a Corvette. OMG, the Ferrari didn't even have 1.0g, I should just buy the Corvette with its 1.1g. What's the point of these reviews? One driver on one day beat another car by 1mph, and now everybody is up in arms about what the better car is? It doesn't matter, you are the one driving, it would be pretty lame that a guy buys a 100k Corvette "Because Motor Trend tested my car, and it outran the Porsche by 1mph, my car is the best, and I got 1.1g's of acceleration." That's what my point was about the reviews.
And regardless of what you say, it is still a fact: Germans build better cars. Are they more expensive and harder to maintain? Yes. Are they worth it? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But the prestige and "fun to drive" persona that comes with owning a boxster trumps that of owning a 100k corvette.

[rodimus prime]

Originally Posted by returnofcc

You must not have driven a manual if you find your paddle shifters to be comparable to a real manual. You sound like a car brochure right now. And I would understand if you were talking about a dual clutch automatic, like that of VW, Audi, Porsche, and Mitsubishi, which truly are superior to any manual transmission, but you have a regular slushbox. Oh, and I drive manual, btw.
Either you're old, or you can't drive manual. What kind of traffic is there in oklahoma?

The 6l80e is far from a slush box so its pretty obvious you dont know what your talking about. Yes a dual clutch auto is fun...better? Time will tell when tuners have better control over the shift delay in the autos. Do you even know how a dual clutch auto works? Do you know how an auto trans works?

But for the record just because you drive a stick doesnt impress anyone (except high school girls). Millions of people drive manual cars not just street raczers yo!

But I must be old or cant drive a manual.