2010 camaro v6 a loser ?

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

Check out the technology and process used to eliminate only a few hundred pounds, and with titanium running well over $60+ per pound, AND with the techiniques used to weld Ti, in my world that's better looking than any picture hanging on a wall! Before you belittle balsa in a ZR1, that's NASA technology in the floor. Sandwich composite panels, the wave of the lightweight future. http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/d...assis-display/

Learn something new everyday. Who'd have thought you'd still find wood used in the cars of the 21st century?

Does the ZR1 come with a Terminix plan as part of the warranty? Sorry, just couldn't resist.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

Learn something new everyday. Who'd have thought you'd still find wood used in the cars of the 21st century?

Does the ZR1 come with a Terminix plan as part of the warranty? Sorry, just couldn't resist.

If the bugs eat through the composite, they've got bigger problems

[rolnslo]

Ah, but the bugs won't have to. Check out the state of the art "Fred Flintstone" braking system they've got there.



Back on topic now...

[greenrail]

To me this is a silly comparison. A Cobalt SS Turbo, is no where near the same type of vhicle as a V-6 Camaro.

If you want a race car (which seems to be the only thing on everyone's mind) then do what you will with any given stock vehicle to make it so.

All this arguing and lambasting about weight, has no basis in the realities of the market place in which the Camaro will be competing.

Does anyone seriously think that the general shopping public would want any car of diminished creature comforts and safety equipment? Hardly, not in today's world.

That is why the Blue Oval guys offer the FR500 Mustangs. It is a factory stripper devoid of many of the Federally Mandated Safety items. They are not street legal and they are sigificantly more expensive than your run of the mill Mustang. They are made strictly for Racing.

If that's what you want, then so be it.

For me, I want a decent performing, automobile with some guts and comfort. I also expect this to be a Safe vehicle for the street. That's why I am Targeting a Camaro SS/RS with an LS3 and Six Speed Manual Transmission. At this stage of my life, I expect comfort, safety, and performance.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by rolnslo

Ah, but the bugs won't have to. Check out the state of the art "Fred Flintstone" braking system they've got there.



Back on topic now...

I'm going to stick with the Brembos. That system went out with the dinosaurs.

[greenrail]

Does anyone remember the '70's. Gas Lines? EPA Mandates for Pollution and Fuel economy?

The result were some pretty dreadful automobiles (at least performancewise). By the end of the decade the Z28 after having been cancelled and reborn was nothing but a shell of its former self. THe 350 V-8 was rated at 185 horsepower. Marketing touted the handling of the vehicle not the performance. Those were some pretty sad days for the enthusiast.

Now let's move forward to today. After two additional generations of steadily improving Camaros. The car was taken out of production. The later model SS versions were pretty respectible performers. Sub 14 second 1/4 mile times and easy sub 5.7 second 0-60 times.

How quickly we forget those days. Now we are on the cusp of a radical change in what we will be driving in the not-too-distant future. In five years we are going to be thinking that any vehicle capable of a 14.5 second 1/4 mile is a rocket compared to what else is on the market.

Will it spell the end of performance as we know it? Perhaps.

But, we need to keep in mind what is going to be available to us as enthusiasts. To me a six cylinder car capable of 14.5 - 1/4 mile times really is pretty decent when you think about it.

Sure people will modify and tune their cars for more performance. That is why we are enthusiasts.

Having said all of that, I for one am going to be on the market for a V-8 with six speed manual. I really don't feel the personal need to wait for an extreme machine with over 500 hp. It will be an individual decision.

To those looking at the V-6, more power to you (so-to-speak). You will have a very respectable automobile that will be enjoyable to drive.

Is it a loser? Hardly!

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by greenrail

Does anyone remember the '70's. Gas Lines? EPA Mandates for Pollution and Fuel economy?

The result were some pretty dreadful automobiles (at least performancewise). By the end of the decade the Z28 after having been cancelled and reborn was nothing but a shell of its former self. THe 350 V-8 was rated at 185 horsepower. Marketing touted the handling of the vehicle not the performance. Those were some pretty sad days for the enthusiast.

Now let's move forward to today. After two additional generations of steadily improving Camaros. The car was taken out of production. The later model SS versions were pretty respectible performers. Sub 14 second 1/4 mile times and easy sub 5.7 second 0-60 times.

How quickly we forget those days. Now we are on the cusp of a radical change in what we will be driving in the not-too-distant future. In five years we are going to be thinking that any vehicle capable of a 14.5 second 1/4 mile is a rocket compared to what else is on the market.

Will it spell the end of performance as we know it? Perhaps.

But, we need to keep in mind what is going to be available to us as enthusiasts. To me a six cylinder car capable of 14.5 - 1/4 mile times really is pretty decent when you think about it.

Sure people will modify and tune their cars for more performance. That is why we are enthusiasts.

Having said all of that, I for one am going to be on the market for a V-8 with six speed manual. I really don't feel the personal need to wait for an extreme machine with over 500 hp. It will be an individual decision.

To those looking at the V-6, more power to you (so-to-speak). You will have a very respectable automobile that will be enjoyable to drive.

Is it a loser? Hardly!

Yeah I remember the 70's, I graduated High School in 71.....
My first new car was a 71 Vega, 2.3L 4, 110HP, 0-60, 16 seconds, 26 MPG highway!
My second new car was a 74 Camaro 5.7L V8, 160HP, 0-60 12 seconds, 21MPG highway!
Today I have 2007 HHR 2.4L 4, 170HP, 0-60 8 seconds, 32 MPG highway!!!
2008 Saturn Sky 2.4L 4, 170HP, 0-60 7.2 seconds, 27 MPG highway.

I actually had a 2003 Monte Carlo with the 3.4L V6 180HP and got 32 MPG on the highway I never checked the 0-60 time on it but it did pretty well for a car that size...

I don't think we will ever see a V-8 with 160HP again, but if we did I would expect it to be in the over 35 MPG rating area..
but a 300 HP V6 is no slouch by any means...

[greenrail]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

Yeah I remember the 70's, I graduated High School in 71.....
My first new car was a 71 Vega, 2.3L 4, 110HP, 0-60, 16 seconds, 26 MPG highway!
My second new car was a 74 Camaro 5.7L V8, 160HP, 0-60 12 seconds, 21MPG highway!
Today I have 2007 HHR 2.4L 4, 170HP, 0-60 8 seconds, 32 MPG highway!!!
2008 Saturn Sky 2.4L 4, 170HP, 0-60 7.2 seconds, 27 MPG highway.

I actually had a 2003 Monte Carlo with the 3.4L V6 180HP and got 32 MPG on the highway I never checked the 0-60 time on it but it did pretty well for a car that size...

I don't think we will ever see a V-8 with 160HP again, but if we did I would expect it to be in the over 35 MPG rating area..
but a 300 HP V6 is no slouch by any means...

Gives it a whole different perspective when you look at the overall history.

When you weigh all of the factors, we really do have a pretty decent car coming to market. Sporty, reasonable performance, pretty fair economy and safety features unheard of back in the old days.

What really has me excited is the fact that the competition (both foreign and domestic) has pushed the quality levels much higher. The days of poor paint quality, bad panel fits and sloppy workmanship are gone. If you don't match or better the competition, you lose in the marketplace.

[Design1stCode2nd]

Cars can weigh near 3000lbs but it costs money and you have to plan that into the platform from the get go. The Camaro is just one car on a modified existing platform. Did you really expect it to weigh in at 3,100-3,200lbs? We already knew the weight of a G8 GT, it wasn't going to be any more than 200lbs lighter and it isn't.

[Beelzebubba]

It's always about the weight.

2nd gen small block Camaros were pushing near 3800 lbs. That's with one catalytic converter, no side intrusion beams, no airbags, no anti-lock, no stability control, 3spd automatic, and less than 200 hp.

It's only gained a hundred or so lbs and has 10X the performance, equipment and safety? Sounds like a win to me.

By comparison, in the past 20 years the Honda Civic Si has gained 1000lbs