Mustangs................

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

As a point of comparison to other 5.0L DOHC DI V8's out there ...

Lexus IS-F
416 hp, 371 ft-lbs

Jaguar XF
385 hp, 380 ft-lbs


I couldn't find any others (surprised that there are 2 out there with the same configuration as what Ford proposes) but I would be surprised if the Ford 5.0 bests the Jaguar's numbers. And something tells me that those engines are a bit more than ~$8000, which is about the limit for what would make this engine affordable in a Mustang GT. Is it possible? Sure, but I will not sit around waiting for all the promises to be fulfilled at once: A 5.0 making 400 hp/400 ft-lbs in a $30 000 Mustang that weighs 3500 lbs and passes all 2012 crash tests with 5 stars. Ford will surely meet some of those specs, possibly do better. But all of them? No.

Additional, with regard to the 2012 crash standards, I think its buried in the forum somewhere (don't have the time to search) that the Camaro is meeting all upcoming safety standards, which would include the 2012 rollover revision.

By the way, I am strongly resisting the urge to speculate as to what GM might do to help the Camaro duke it out with the 2011 Mustang.

to everything.....get outta my head.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by Georgie

don't forget the saleen parnelli jones has a 5.0 based off the 4.6 and its nearly at 400hp. a 5.0 built from the ground up should make better numbers than that

That is a fair point, and if Ford is going to have the EcoBoost as an option for the Mustang, I'd imagine the 5.0L V8 is going to have to offer better performance than the EcoBoost.....or better than 355hp and 350 ft-lbs.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by Rock36

That is a fair point, and if Ford is going to have the EcoBoost as an option for the Mustang, I'd imagine the 5.0L V8 is going to have to offer better performance than the EcoBoost.....or better than 355hp and 350 ft-lbs.

+1

I would probably still opt for the EcoBoost instead.

[fdjizm]

Originally Posted by Super83Z

If you think that motor is going in the base Mustang, please pass what your smoking.

Will hold you to that comment bro

[Wrath]

Originally Posted by Jamestwilliams

Actually without the track pack the Mustang GT does not out handle the SS. As a caveot the "Track pack" equipped Mustang GT must be compared on a perfect surace to even keep up with the SS, soon as the road is a little bumpy the superior independant suspension of the SS holds together without problem while the live rear axel in the mustang hops and bucks causing the mustang to loose it's line. By the way most race tracks don't have a perfect surface. The GT with "track pack" is only marginally better than the SS while the SS offers a far better overall ride.

I would like to side with you, but the mustang WILL out handle the camaro... track pack or not.

[Wrath]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Seeing as there is a .2 second difference in 60 times between the cars RIGHT NOW, id be suprised if there was still a gap after gaining 75hp/65lbft


I am somewhat skeptical that Chevy will respond with greater performance given the current economic state, but I cant imagine the 5.0L having the same aftermarket capabilities as the LS3.

There will be a gap, in favor of the mustangs... wasn't this proven a few threads back, the mustang only needs like 40 HP, and it looks like its getting 85 now...

[PA FAST]

Originally Posted by Bocephus

2014 for the all new Mustang. Just in time for the 50th anniversary. And the Mustang may not have IRS then. Ford is keeping the weight down in their cars for better fuel economy and a solid axle is an easy way to do that.

The more I know, I can't believe IRS weighs more than a solid rear axle.

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

The cobra wasn't a limited edition, just another trim level. The GT more for the everyday joe, the cobra more for the performance enthusiast.

Where did it go? I no longer see it offered on the Mustang.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

By the way, I am strongly resisting the urge to speculate as to what GM might do to help the Camaro duke it out with the 2011 Mustang.

I would like to hear what you have to say on the subject.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by PA FAST

Where did it go? I no longer see it offered on the Mustang.

It was replaced in the model lineup in 2007 with the GT500. Like I and many others have said before, the car that became the GT500 was already engineered by SVT and slated for production before the ever reached the deal to attach Shelby's name to it.

[CamDarryl]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet (tried searching thread, but pretty new to this posting thing), but the 5.0L Coyote is going to be built in Canada, just like the Camaro
In fact, it appears it will be built in my home town of Windsor, ON at Essex Engine plant.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by syr74

... the victim of a few too many compromises ...

The Lexus V8 is arguably a better comparison ...

... How Yamaha manged such small gains from such a heavily reworked piece is beyond me. ...

I suppose GM could throw DI at the LS series V8, but given the current cash situation and the emphasis on small cars and hybrids I don't expect any major changes to the LSX V8 engines for at least the next few years. In fact, if we see any change I would expect that the LS3 might grow AFM for the sake of CAFE and lose a few horses.

Hate to break it to you, but there will be as many compromises (possibly more) that have to be made for a mass produced low cost engine than one for a sporty luxury car.

So are you expecting the Coyote to be better than the Toyota-Yamaha co-operative effort?

Nothing major is going to be developed for their Gen IV small blocks. They are effectively at the end of their design cycle. Minor tweaks here and there but they're working on a new generation of engines right now. And GM has an LS3 with active fuel managent, its called the L99 and its in the automatic Camaro SS's. And yes, it lost a few horses along the way.

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

Don't forget the hyundai v8.

The 5.0L version of the Tau? Its not in production yet so comparing its numbers to the Ford that isn't in production yet is a bit silly.

Originally Posted by Super83Z

The Gen V small-block is all done. DI all ready to go.

No its not. But it should be by 2012

Originally Posted by PA FAST

I would like to hear what you have to say on the subject.

Some other thread perhaps, I don't want to send this one off topic.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Hate to break it to you, but there will be as many compromises (possibly more) that have to be made for a mass produced low cost engine than one for a sporty luxury car.

So are you expecting the Coyote to be better than the Toyota-Yamaha co-operative effort?

Nothing major is going to be developed for their Gen IV small blocks. They are effectively at the end of their design cycle. Minor tweaks here and there but they're working on a new generation of engines right now. And GM has an LS3 with active fuel managent, its called the L99 and its in the automatic Camaro SS's. And yes, it lost a few horses along the way.

The 5.0L version of the Tau? Its not in production yet so comparing its numbers to the Ford that isn't in production yet is a bit silly.


No its not. But it should be by 2012

Some other thread perhaps, I don't want to send this one off topic.

Yes.



You think Yamaha and Toyota can make a better V8 than Ford?

[Wrath]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Yes.



You think Yamaha and Toyota can make a better V8 than Ford?

this

[Rock36]

All I know is, like another member posted, that the 5.0L in the Saleen Parnelli Jones edition generates...

400 bhp @ 6000 rpm
390 ft-lbs @ 4700 rpm

And it is only a stroked version of the current 4.6L 3V with better flowing heads, and they bumped up compression ratio.

I think it is reasonable to assume the compression ratio in the 5.0L Coyote will be lower, the heads might not flow as well either, and therefore sacrifice some power; but I don't see why it couldn't be in the ballpark of 370-380 bhp.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Hate to break it to you, but there will be as many compromises (possibly more) that have to be made for a mass produced low cost engine than one for a sporty luxury car.

5.0L is purported to have a head and intake design right at the top of the class (and the upper intake certainly does nothing to dissuade this notion, looking like it was built to kill) Every reputable source of information who has spoken on the issue has agreed on this one. And since information on this engine has been very reliable, or very reliable when gathered from good sources, I see no reason to doubt.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

So are you expecting the Coyote to be better than the Toyota-Yamaha co-operative effort?

Oh yeah. Having had hands on a couple of Yamaha V8 engines now, the 3.4L SHO unit and the 4.4L Volvo piece, I can tell you that I want Yamaha kept just about as far away from my V8 as possible. Ford themselves would like to deep six the Yamaha developed V8 that their Volvo models currently use, the engine underperforms in terms of performance and fuel economy and costs far too much even if it didn't. In fact, many suspect Ford is simply biding their time long enough to fulfill their contract with Yamaha so they can be well and truly done with them

Originally Posted by DG3

Nothing major is going to be developed for their Gen IV small blocks. They are effectively at the end of their design cycle. Minor tweaks here and there but they're working on a new generation of engines right now.

I will remain a skeptic regarding how 'new' any new generation of engines is going to be until I have good reason not to be. The fact that GM felt the need to deliniate the differences between the gen III and gen IV smallblocks by actually citing them as fully different generations of engine was and remains ridiculous. Ever since that needless bit of hyperbole I tend to prop an eyebrow at any mention of 'new engines' from GM. Personally, I suspect we'll be seeing Vette's and trucks with engines essentially like the units we see underhood now for some number of years....although the average displacement is likely to shrink.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And GM has an LS3 with active fuel managent, its called the L99 and its in the automatic Camaro SS's. And yes, it lost a few horses along the way.

Thanks, I had thoguht that there were a couple of other minor differences between the L99 and the LS3.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

No its not. But it should be by 2012

I am uncertain we will ever see DI in a pushrod V8 application as the benefits are likely to be far too small to justify the costs. And even if GM decides to go ahead with DI anyway, I'll be surprised if they can muster the funds to do so by 2012.