Will the Camaro last past 2016?

[Maddtim]

Originally Posted by TaterDog

The technology already exists. It's just not being mass produced to be economical. This will push the car makers to go mass prod with cars that can get that mileage.

But I am relieved I ordered my SS already!

Was gonna say the same thing myself. It does exist it's just too expensive right now. Force the automakers to all use the technology and the price comes down, simple as that. And besides, the 39MPG is an average of models for a brand, so the Camaro per se will not have to hit 39(though I could see the V6 doing it), Chevy will over all models.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

I think the URL tells the story there. GM will officially be Government Motors, owned and operated by the federal government. The story does state the government could then turn the company over to the UAW, which helped put this government in place to begin with.

"Holding majority stake" and "owning and operating" are two entirely different things. Their name won't change, and coupled with the repetitive rebuttals by the feds that they have no intentions of telling them how to run their business, I have to respectfully, but completely, disagree.

But that's not the subject of this thread, and I apologize for even commenting on it. All politically-oriented posts have been removed because #1, they're off-topic, and #2, they're politically focused.

Originally Posted by blinkme323

If you watch the motor trend video review of the Camaro and the Genesis Coupe, they don't think it will either. I believe they say something to the effect of "The Genesis is the sports car of the future, while the Camaro is part of a dying breed". That's not verbatim, but you get the gist of it.

I believe the Camaro will go on for decades to come. There's no reason it shouldn't. Even the V8 model gets pretty good mpg for a mid-large sized coupe. The sound bite about the Genesis being the sports car of the future and the Camaro a dying breed was pure BS, and I still resent them for saying it. The two cars are nearly identical in performance and quality, bu with two MAJOR differences. The Camaro gets more mpg, and costs less. You tell me which vehicle has a better chance of sailing into the future?

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I believe the Camaro will go on for decades to come. There's no reason it shouldn't. Even the V8 model gets pretty good mpg for a mid-large sized coupe. The sound bite about the Genesis being the sports car of the future and the Camaro a dying breed was pure BS, and I still resent them for saying it. The two cars are nearly identical in performance and quality, bu with two MAJOR differences. The Camaro gets more mpg, and costs less. You tell me which vehicle has a better chance of sailing into the future?

The Camaro is more sophisticated and efficient. That seems to have a future to me. Where the Genesis coupe does represent the future is in non-retro styling and smaller size and weight. That is where the enthusiast trend is headed and GM would do well to follow it. Even if your car performs well and sips gas, if it is perceived as big, bulky, and heavy that hurts it. GM has the capabilities to take the Genesis formula and destroy it at its own game. Imagine that same car with the 260 hp 2.0L turbocharged DI ecotec, the 3.0L DI V6, and the 3.6L DI V6. Performance and fuel economy would definitely exceed the Genesis as it stands now. Smaller, lighter, edgier, sophisticated, and efficient are the ways of the future. The Camaro has the latter two, the Genesis the first three. Put them together, and you're looking A-OK.

[mkaresh]

I've also been waiting for Alpha ever since hearing it was in development. If they do continue with it, I hope they don't base it too heavily on zeta, or it'll be too heavy.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by stovt001

The Camaro is more sophisticated and efficient. That seems to have a future to me. Where the Genesis coupe does represent the future is in non-retro styling and smaller size and weight. That is where the enthusiast trend is headed and GM would do well to follow it. Even if your car performs well and sips gas, if it is perceived as big, bulky, and heavy that hurts it. GM has the capabilities to take the Genesis formula and destroy it at its own game. Imagine that same car with the 260 hp 2.0L turbocharged DI ecotec, the 3.0L DI V6, and the 3.6L DI V6. Performance and fuel economy would definitely exceed the Genesis as it stands now. Smaller, lighter, edgier, sophisticated, and efficient are the ways of the future. The Camaro has the latter two, the Genesis the first three. Put them together, and you're looking A-OK.

hmmm, just had images of GM taking the Cobalt SS Turbo onto a new level there.... could easily be done, or something along those lines. Of course, give it a nice cosmetic lift first

[mkaresh]

A second-generation Kappa with the edges refined away would have been a winner...not happening at this point.

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

hmmm, just had images of GM taking the Cobalt SS Turbo onto a new level there.... could easily be done, or something along those lines. Of course, give it a nice cosmetic lift first

I thought all SS iterations of the Cobalt were being discontinued?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

I've also been waiting for Alpha ever since hearing it was in development. If they do continue with it, I hope they don't base it too heavily on zeta, or it'll be too heavy.

You have to remember, Zeta was designed to hold a V8 (and it's subsequent power), and be virtually indestructible while doing so. That's where it gets heavy.

It has the unique capability of underpinning anything from a small-mid-sized coupe, to a large wagon. In the G8's case, we've got a large sedan...in the Camaro's case...a mid-sized coupe with a longer-than-necessary front section to give it the traditional lines of a pony car. This is invaluable, because you don't need to design a new platform for every different type of car you want to build. "Just pick a different version of Zeta".

It could be lighter, but we'd have to sacrifice features that we're not willing to give up at the moment. (like iconic proportions, and certain powertrains)

Zeta's IRS design and modular abilities makes it a gem. It's not 'bad' in any sense. It's just a large-car platform designed for hi-po engines. Alpha (if it's called that and not something like "Zeta lite") will NOT share the same robustness and physical size that Zeta has. If Zeta is mid-large...then 'Alpha' will be small-mid, and the largest engine it will likely support is a V6. Think of it as a little brother.

Originally Posted by blinkme323

I thought all SS iterations of the Cobalt were being discontinued?

Just the sedan. I imagine it wasn't selling as much as the coupe, and really wasn't "needed".

[stovt001]

As Dragon said, only the Cobalt SS sedan is discontinued. SS coupes remain. The HHR Panel SS is discontinued as well, but the traditional HHR SS remains. It makes sense to me. The Cobalt SS and HHR SS are pretty clean and efficient, so it isn't really a CAFE issue, and they're both critically well received. However, cars like that tend to be niche, so making extremely niche models like the HHR Panel SS (who would buy that?) makes little sense. The Cobalt SS sedan is more practical than the coupe, but it is much uglier (no offense meant to anyone who owns a sedan...) and sporty looks may trend practicality in this area. For those who want more practicality, the HHR SS does that just fine. So scaling back the SS offerings makes real good sense.

Now back to the topic on hand, Dragon brings up an interesting point about Alpha supporting a V6 at most. Now suppose Chevy got an Alpha model - should the coupe be called Camaro, and the formula be changed to a smaller car with the top of the line model offering performance of the current SS through lighter weight and a high output V6, and a base model powered by a turbo 4? Or should that be a separate model and keep the Camaro as a larger, V6 and V8 powered coupe? This might need a separate poll.

[MilotiNY]

Originally Posted by mikelj

Yes, Obama and his Obamamobile ideas will kill the muscle car just as surely as Jimma Carter and his disastrous ideas killed it in the '70s. We are approaching the dark ages of speed, power, and styling for cars, again, just like the '70s. It took 25 years or so to recover from those dark days to today when there are dozens of 400+ HP cars with exciting styling, like the new Camaro. Take a look at the ugly econobox Prius or Insight, that is what you will get by 2016, too many people don't care what they drive as long as it is cheap, politically correct, and trendy and gets from Point A to Point B. I am preparing to keep my older '60s musclecars indefinitely, as well as my new Camaro and MB SL55. We will not see the like of them again for a very long time. A very sad day for those who love to drive great looking, fast cars.

i think you got it all wrong here. this law is targeting more the big ass SUV's that you have to stop at every gas station in order to get somewhere with them.
don't worry, sports cars will be around. they're not going to get any uglier and slower.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by stovt001

As Dragon said, only the Cobalt SS sedan is discontinued. SS coupes remain. The HHR Panel SS is discontinued as well, but the traditional HHR SS remains. It makes sense to me.

The Cobalt, or at least the Cobalt sedan, is going away as soon as GM finds the money to tool up the Cruze. No plans have been announced for a Cruze SS.

[Tal]

The Cobalt SS already starts even higher than a Camaro, and the Cruze is going to be more expensive than the Cobalt. When you consider these factors a Cruze SS would very likely end up over $25k and at that price point it might make sense for GM to skip the Cruze SS entirely or at least not be in any rush to add it to the product lineup. It might be an interesting platform for GM to try an SS hybrid with in a few years though.

What they're going to be lacking is an Impala SS that's worthy of the label, the current one is just depressing and with Pontiac and the G8 leaving the gap in their product line could be significant. This does provide GM with an opportunity to revive the Impala without having to worry about competing against themselves so it's not all doom and gloom.

[Kvapil28]

Turd Prius

[DGthe3]

One thing that may have been glanced over is the fact that CAFE does not use the EPA window sticker numbers for mileage. Esentially, most vehicles get rated at 25% more than what the EPA test provides.

So, the average of 42 mpg in cars is more like a 33.6 mpg average on window stickers. Still a big jump, no doubt about it, but its not as 'out there' as one would think. Plus there are several 'adjustments' that get made to the formula due to the intent of the legislation.

Some people (wrongly) assume that CAFE is intended to help the environment and save consumers money. The truth is, CAFE was created to reduce the usage of imported oil. For example, ethanol actually decreases mileage but provides a bonus to the CAFE ratings of any car or truck sold that is flex fuel compatible. This is because ethanol is a domestically produced fuel source, well it is in theory anyway.

I've also heard that there are concessions made that acknowledge that bigger vehicles are less efficient than small ones. The relative footprint of a vehicle (wheelbase x trackwidth) acts as a sort of 'scaling factor' when calculating the CAFE numbers. This makes it easier for automakers to continue building the cars and trucks that people want instead of focusing purely on tiny econoboxes to "beat the test"