Header idea?

[GaBoy25]

I may not have went to college but someone just got schooled!

[GaBoy25]

Originally Posted by 2SS45th

You don't have to have a race spec car to need high quality stuff

I know on my car I went with what I saw was the best quality, that was it. I thoroughly believe the best quality product is made in the USA, so that's it for me.

I think of it like an ar. You can go with a $100 Bushnell TRS-25 red dot or $600 aimpoint micro. Both are highly touted amongst the ranks but priced much differently.

Another example...Im a jeweler. I use various tools from OTHER countries as France, Germany and Japan. As do ALL jewelers and for good reason. That being said I ALSO use tools made in china and pakistan due to the price difference.

Example: Ring Cutter Made In Germany $70

Nearly Identical Ring Cutter Made in Pakistan $12

Its like this on nearly everything if you think about it. It truely comes down to preference and necessity...nothing more.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by A.R. Headers

Blaqhole and Camarojt, I normally don't interject into threads that don't include us in the title but since our name was mentioned and slandered for being overpriced, I'll sum things up for you nicely and with all due respect. As a company only seven years in the making but has made strides in the industry so large that even the big three took notice, I'll be the first to say that high quality, 100% US made headers from ARH aren't for everyone's budget. Clearly Kook's isn't for everyones budget either thus we have these types of threads.

I welcome anyone to come to our facility, have a good hard look at what it takes to design, prototype and manufacture our products and I'll guarantee your tune will change radically. I can point out why we use materials only made in America and why it costs what it does to manufacture our systems. Heck I'll even buy you lunch afterwards and I'll throw in a slice of humble pie.

If you refuse to spend the extra money because there's cheaper options, by all means go the cheaper route. Claiming that we're overcharging simply because you don't want to spend the extra money is flat out disengenuous. ARH wouldn't be the company it's become if we weren't doing things right and I'd be willing to bet that the tens of thousands of satisfied ARH customers wouldn't trade their header system for any other brand.

Once again, our doors are open. Feel free to pay us a visit.

Nick
A.R. Headers

Nick, I wasn't being dishonest when I said over-priced. I was stating my opinion. And I also stated my opinion that you guys and Kooks make the best headers. How something is priced is subjective. I look at the price and all that comes with it and I might say it's too much. Someone else will look at the price and all the advantages to owning your brand, and they may feel it is priced very reasonably. Simply put, all that sets you apart from OBX didn't matter enough to me that I could justify spending the extra money. But it will matter to others.

And I'm not saying that you guys should compromise your work or lower your prices. Hey, you put a lot of effort and pride into your work. Your work shows and your products speak for themselves. You have a reputation that you worked hard to gain and harder to maintain...so kudos.

But in reality, these arguments occur when those who did purchase Kooks or ARH (or other brands) start ridiculing those who bought OBX. You ever notice that it's ALWAYS OBX vs other brands. These members here start talking that OBX is crap even tho they have no valid reason to say so. The 5th Gen Camaro is 3-4 years old. So there is no brand that has lasted more than 3-4 years. So there is nobody that can say with any validity that Kooks/ARH last longer than OBX. All dynos show cars with OBX making similar numbers to other brands. And all of us that installed them talk great about the fitment. People bash because they aren't made in America, yet the Camaro isn't either. People call them copies and knock-offs when that is just something they read online and have no actual proof. And people criticize the quality based on a 1-2 year old picture despite those of us who have a set that looks nothing like that pic. And yet there is a thread on this board just now talking about how a set of Kooks arrived with shavings and oil in the collector...should we all bash Kooks from now on? So basically, there is a lot of hatred against OBX and it is all based out of ignorance. And that ignorance based hatred is what starts the arguments that usually end up with comparisons between OBX and ARH/Kooks where we start calling you out on the prices. Because we know that OBX does not offer the high quality ARH does...but again, the quality is not enough to win our business when OBX is good enough for substantially less. And I'm not trying to offend you, I'm just trying to be as respectfully candid as I possible. And I'd love to take a tour of your facilities one of these days!!

[A.R. Headers]

BlaqWhole, Nearly every company selling headers manufactured in China have knocked off some reputable US header manufacturer. Most won't even have the decency to tell you that they're made overseas. Being knocked off is a frustrating fact that US manufacturers of all types have to deal with. We've been copied 6 different times. Kooks is our competitor but without a doubt OBX took the liberty of buying a set of Kooks headers and have them reverse engineered in China. The comparison pics were posted long ago. It's no secret.

As far as not seeing why you have to spend the extra money for ARH or Kooks, I believe I addressed that in my last post. We're not for everyone's budget. I do want to make one more point that you may find interesting. About one year ago a US supplier of Viper parts decided he wanted to go into the header business by taking my Gen 2, 3 and 4 Viper headers over to where he thought was a good manufacturer of products in China. They copied all three sets and he went to work selling them on his site. He even used our photos in the advertisement.

Well wouldn't you know it, they sold a set to someone in Canada that weeks latter caught fire because one of the tubes cracked and blew flames into the engine compartment. The tubing used had impure nickel that makes it brittle and it cracked. This is an inherent problem with products made overseas and unless you've got a legitimate way of prevent them from using inferior materials (good luck with that) cracks can and have occurred.

The Viper owner was able to save his car because had an extinguisher. The car was shipped to California for repairs and a swap to a set of ARH headers. What makes this story even worse is that the customer thought he bought a set of ARH headers in the first place. Imagine how he felt hearing he was screwed.

By the way, that Chinese manufacturer approached us at SEMA about building headers for us. They even had the audacity of having our Viper headers on display. Take guess what my response was.

Nick
A.R. Headers

[GMTool]

So. The moral of the story is. Money talks, bullcrap walks. Nothing new. Stainless Works has a cheaper product now called Stainless Power. Other American company's have not followed this path. It's a free country, buy the cheap product made overseas, then you have ONE thing to feel good about. You saved some money. Chinese people got to eat to. Or buy a better quality product that cost a little more that is made in our own USA. Then you have MANY things to feel good about. It's just to bad that our own country is not working, in more ways than one. Im going to do all I can to help Americans have a job. If all Americans felt this way. Our country would be working better.

[SPCBA]

I wonder how much lower the prices would be if US companies weren't pirated. Or if people didn't buy goods that rip off US companies ideas.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by GMTool

So. The moral of the story is. Money talks, bullcrap walks. Nothing new. Stainless Works has a cheaper product now called Stainless Power. Other American company's have not followed this path. It's a free country, buy the cheap product made overseas, then you have ONE thing to feel good about. You saved some money. Chinese people got to eat to. Or buy a better quality product that cost a little more that is made in our own USA. Then you have MANY things to feel good about. It's just to bad that our own country is not working, in more ways than one. Im going to do all I can to help Americans have a job. If all Americans felt this way. Our country would be working better.

so true. all its about is how cheap, or personal benefit.

[black79ta]

Holy Moly. Half way thru the first page...sheesh! Is there a new header design or not?

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

I wonder how much lower the prices would be if US companies weren't pirated. Or if people didn't buy goods that rip off US companies ideas.

You see this when comparing the price of Stainless Power to Stainless Works. It ends up being a few hundred dollars instead of $700. Enough where you still consider Stainless Works to get the liftime warranty.

[Smirnoff]

Originally Posted by A.R. Headers

BlaqWhole, Nearly every company selling headers manufactured in China have knocked off some reputable US header manufacturer. Most won't even have the decency to tell you that they're made overseas. Being knocked off is a frustrating fact that US manufacturers of all types have to deal with. We've been copied 6 different times. Kooks is our competitor but without a doubt OBX took the liberty of buying a set of Kooks headers and have them reverse engineered in China. The comparison pics were posted long ago. It's no secret.

As far as not seeing why you have to spend the extra money for ARH or Kooks, I believe I addressed that in my last post. We're not for everyone's budget. I do want to make one more point that you may find interesting. About one year ago a US supplier of Viper parts decided he wanted to go into the header business by taking my Gen 2, 3 and 4 Viper headers over to where he thought was a good manufacturer of products in China. They copied all three sets and he went to work selling them on his site. He even used our photos in the advertisement.

Well wouldn't you know it, they sold a set to someone in Canada that weeks latter caught fire because one of the tubes cracked and blew flames into the engine compartment. The tubing used had impure nickel that makes it brittle and it cracked. This is an inherent problem with products made overseas and unless you've got a legitimate way of prevent them from using inferior materials (good luck with that) cracks can and have occurred.

The Viper owner was able to save his car because had an extinguisher. The car was shipped to California for repairs and a swap to a set of ARH headers. What makes this story even worse is that the customer thought he bought a set of ARH headers in the first place. Imagine how he felt hearing he was screwed.

By the way, that Chinese manufacturer approached us at SEMA about building headers for us. They even had the audacity of having our Viper headers on display. Take guess what my response was.

Nick
A.R. Headers

Nick - you hit the nail in regards no specifications for quality or steel metallurgical standards. Your story is quite common, inferior imported headers cracking or melting that cause significant damage due to fires.....

[litle88]

Blaqwhole (typical)

No I'm not high and mighty BUT I'm not gonna cheap out on my builds, sorry but I'm not gonna ghettofy my build and cheap out on parts that won't last or DON'T WORK, the WS6 took me 2 years, 2 months and 17 days (yea it felt longer). I've been doing this too long I know what works and what doesn't, I wanna do it once and do it right. I'm sure others will differ, I try to help in installs, tech, selling/ buying parts here to build "trust" or even going 30 miles to video a dyno run for fellow members that live outta state, and I enjoy every bit of it.! No high horse just a no nonsense or sugar coating guy.
You'll be ok........

[willhe64]

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...183230&page=22

Kooks high flow cats are clogging under FI applications. Same as many others. Where is the added quality and materials in those?

To top it off, they are telling these people that the vehicle went lean and it is not their concern. Denying warranty.

If I put a set of cheaper cats on my FI car and they burn out i'm going to sigh, live and learn.

Put on some expensive Kooks high flow and they burn out the same as the cheapo's and then get denied warranty. I'm going to come apart like a cheap card table.

[litle88]

Easy fix lol, punch them out if you need it for visual inspections. If not go Catless. Just my .2

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by willhe64

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...183230&page=22

Kooks high flow cats are clogging under FI applications. Same as many others. Where is the added quality and materials in those?

To top it off, they are telling these people that the vehicle went lean and it is not their concern. Denying warranty.

If I put a set of cheaper cats on my FI car and they burn out i'm going to sigh, live and learn.

Put on some expensive Kooks high flow and they burn out the same as the cheapo's and then get denied warranty. I'm going to come apart like a cheap card table.

wow you have it wrong. kooks cats are not made for FI, and a lot of people who buy OBX headers also buy kooks cats. its common not to run cats with a blower.

stop trying to justify buying OBX headers, just go head and buy them you are already set on it.