2014 1le ls7 cam, ported heads, long tubes.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Bodywerks

Sorry I sounded so sarcastic in that last post. Long day...
Tune only has been done several times. It is good for an honest 15/15 gain, maybe slightly better. Yes, it is the best cost/hp ratio you can get, just about.
As you can see in my signature, after tune(which IMO should just plane be standard practice after headers), My total gain over stock(which averages about 375/375)after intake, headers, and tune was just short of 50hp and 50tq.
I went Kooks so my cost is up there, but it's still only about $2k including tune. That's $40/hp which really is a bargain, considering a cam and springs only is about the same price after factoring in all the supporting parts for that job, the labor cost, since 3/4 of people that do a cam pay someone else to do it. Cam and springs only is typically only good for 50-75hp and less torque gains, like 15-30tq.
Now, those gains will almost definitely assume that intake and headers were already installed, because pretty much NOBODY adds a cam without first adding components that will allow the cam to do its job.
But, just to assume, lets say somebody was crazy enough to install a cam before headers and intake. What do you think the gains would be? Still the 50-75hp? I highly doubt it, since the engine is starving for air. I'd say it'd be more like 25-40hp and 20-30tq.
So you just tore out your radiator, water pump, oil pump, valve covers, etc., etc., etc., and spent 10 hours(assuming you've done a few before) or over $1,000 in labor, to gain the same or less horsepower that an intake and headers would have netted you.
To each his own, but if I were to only be able to afford one or the other, I'd choose intake and headers every day and three times on Sunday. They are straight bolt on options, and it took me about 5 hours total to install my intake, headers, AND full exhaust.

Thanks for getting back to me. I by no means would put heads and a cam in an engine without exhaust at a minimum, and most likely a CAI. I agree with you there. I do not agree that your going to notice 20HP, but I am sure I am in the minority there, and have to be honest, have never made a modification that minimal, so I might be wrong. I think you are selling the cam/head swap with tune a bit short as far as the gain your would receive, but agree as I mentioned above, doing that work without the exhaust / intake upgrade would be very short sided. I was a bit snarky in my first response as well and should not have been. I have played with cars all of my life, and just have grown tired of the bolt on (not talking forced induction) racers who without having ever having cracked the engine open have created a monster. It simply does not work that way.

[1sick_eg]

Regardless of what has been said in this thread, I think you'll be happy with the gains. The car should still maintain a stock like driveability, but should feel better, especially up top.

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[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

Thanks for getting back to me. I by no means would put heads and a cam in an engine without exhaust at a minimum, and most likely a CAI.

I'm thinking about doing my Cam first... just for educational reasons.

I know most everybody here knows everything, but I think it would be beneficial to the new guys who happen upon this site.

There's plenty of data of performance gains from CAI & Headers... etc... before a cam. This will demonstrate how there will be more gains from the boltons with a healthy cam already in the engine.

Like I said, I'm just thinking about doing it this way. Nothing is set in stone.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I'm thinking about doing my Cam first... just for educational reasons.

I know most everybody here knows everything, but I think it would be beneficial to the new guys who happen upon this site.

There's plenty of data of performance gains from CAI & Headers... etc... before a cam. This will demonstrate how there will be more gains from the boltons with a healthy cam already in the engine.

Like I said, I'm just thinking about doing it this way. Nothing is set in stone.

I would love it if you did. My only concern is the double cost of the tune. To get the benefit of the cam, you will need a tune. Then when you add heads/exhaust/CAI (or any combo of those) I would think you would need another tune. I know $500 is not a life changer, but its not happy meal money either. Maybe a second tune would be less if you used the same guy.

[SoFlo Muscle Cars]

Originally Posted by 1sick_eg

You're claiming 527whp/552wtq isn't a happy dyno? You have the highest torque out of any ls3 I've seen by a large margin. You've got a nice build looking at the parts quoted, but there's no way a cam that size with heads is making over 500wtq.

Ask any tuner and engine builder. I still question my own numbers I've put up. Not because it doesn't run well, but because even 504wtq is unheard of.

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Sorry typo my bad 452 TQ
I have 2 user names Sps is my personel acct and SoFlo is a group we run on here. Not enough coffee

[1sick_eg]

Originally Posted by SoFlo Muscle Cars

Sorry typo my bad 452 TQ

Perfectly believable dyno numbers. It is a good number which always causes doubt in some, but I could see you actually making that on your setup.

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[SoFlo Muscle Cars]

Originally Posted by 1sick_eg

I believe it is the same guy judging from his posts. I don't think his hp number is much out of range for his build, but the torque claim of 550wtq is just extremely high.

Sorry typo on my part TQ 452 and yes I've got 2 accts on here

[Bodywerks]

Yeah, those numbers are 100 percent believable and inspired me to consider those heads and that cam. In fact, the heads are practically a certainty for me, but I just put in a cam grind request with pat G, in hopes that he can squeeze a little more out in the tq area, and without that power dip I see on all the dyno charts between 3200-4000rpm with the tsp 231/236 and 235/239 cams.

[Cazar]

I keep seeing people posting about needing a new exhaust to go with the headers and the intake so that the car can breathe. Is the NPP exhaust not good enough? I know several people prefer Magnaflow because of how well it breathes.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I would love it if you did. My only concern is the double cost of the tune. To get the benefit of the cam, you will need a tune. Then when you add heads/exhaust/CAI (or any combo of those) I would think you would need another tune. I know $500 is not a life changer, but its not happy meal money either. Maybe a second tune would be less if you used the same guy.

I would have got a tune after headers & full exhaust anyway.... then again after Cam... then again after heads.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I would have got a tune after headers & full exhaust anyway.... then again after Cam... then again after heads.

I guess I see myself doing it all at once...one tune only, but that is a good ways down the road.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I would love it if you did. My only concern is the double cost of the tune. To get the benefit of the cam, you will need a tune. Then when you add heads/exhaust/CAI (or any combo of those) I would think you would need another tune. I know $500 is not a life changer, but its not happy meal money either. Maybe a second tune would be less if you used the same guy.

I just happened to be going through old posts, & came across this

Originally Posted by Rhino79

Well we had a customer come in with an unusal request. He wanted to do a cam, all air intake and exhaust components are stock.

I figured it would be a good time to try our baby vvt grind and see what kind of power we could get with stock exhaust manifolds, cats, and induction.

Car was a 75,000 mile 2010 L99 car. Car baselined 334.

I got the cam in, tuned and results were 397/390!

Stock converter friendly, idles great at 650-675, and has an unbelievable power band. Peaks torque about the same spot at stock, and peaks power about 6300, carrying the same power all the way to 6800 rpm.

This cam is available in low lift and high lift variety, and this was on the low lift setup!

So that's +63 RWHP right there.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I just happened to be going through old posts, & came across this



So that's +63 RWHP right there.

Thanks. Would it not be cool to see what it did with the CAI and exhaust. That would be a really cool test to see. If I manufactured either product (headers or CAI) that would be something I would want to know, and if it made a big difference, I would let everyone know. That being said, makes me wonder if they do know, and are just keeping their mouth shut! 63 is a decent hit though.

[Jmh_0711]

Originally Posted by SoFlo Muscle Cars

I'm the guy who some of you are referring with reference to 527rwhp and the TQ is 452. I was at 508-510 with cam and heads and supporting mods. We added a Nicky Williams TB and a fast intake best combo if using the fast intake. There is a big differance between a Vmax 102 TB and the Nicky Williams TB.
Also by no stretch of the imagination was the mustang Dyno a happy Dyno as some of you have said LOL. All my work was done in south Florida by Lasway Motorsports. The heat and humidity 102 deg on last Dyno pull so may even left a few RWHP on the table...but who cares not me. Give the OP a break he was not making any claims was just stating what his plans are. There are so many armchair mechanics who claim to know everything and just basically rip people apart and make them feel like a jerk.., that's why a lot of people on here never post. It seems a lot of people do not read posts correctly before commenting. I don't know also were you are getting the 440tq from. I made 442tq with cam only. Added another 16 after heads, TB, intake and U/P. These number have already been questioned, so I sure more will do so LMAO
Op good luck with your mods, I'm sure you will be happy with the results

Thanks alot, Looking forward to it! Great set up you have by the way!