The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by syr74

I'll disagree with the beginning on your post outright and point out that even you hint at what I am getting at in the latter portion of your post. Ford has made it clear that, barring the company going under, the Mustang will be here no matter what. Ford's pony has the eternal, golden get out of jail free card because, no matter how few they sell, this car along with the F-150 are simply too tied in with Ford historically to go away. As much as the Mustang is a Ford, it is Ford, and Ford knows it.

The Camaro is doing very well, much better than I predicted at this point in fact and it is very obvious that Chevy nailed the segment they were looking for. But, to be fair, they can't make the same promise to Chevy fans that Ford has to their fans with a straight face given the fact that Camaro just came back from a roughly decade long vacation.

As such, I think Mustang fans everywhere would disagree that better sales right now translate into a win for the enthusiast for obvious reasons.

It is a business and not a hobby. If Ford loses money on the Mustang it will be gone along with the promise. The same is true of the Camaro. The F-150 is safe as long as it turns a profit. The name of the game is to move iron, just as it was when Henry Ford started the company.

Btw, I have a Mustang in my garage, had a 5th Gen and am waiting on my ZL1.

[BigDan]

I don't think the price will increase that much. Just look at all the standard feature's Ford gave us 2011 owners for only a $1,200 increase over the 2010's

*Aluminum block
*Electric steering
*Silver finish on SC
*Blue power coat valve covers
*Improved exhaust manifolds
*Larger exhaust diameter
*H pipe vs 2010 X pipe
*Painted rear end
*Finned aluminum diff cover
*Improved brake cooling
*Auto start ignition
*40% larger inter cooler
*HID's standard
*No gas guzzler tax
*Flip up/ down rear headrests
* Improved under body aero dynamics
*Orange antifreeze
*Bigger faster more complex computer
*Wideband o2's?
*New colors
*Improved suspension, fixed the 2010's wheel hop.
*10 horsepower more but seems to make more like 20whp
*Factory "Boost a pump" for the fuel pump
*"My key" for limiting speed and TC for certain keys
*Different cam part numbers, some say its the Ford GT cams due to the 2011's making peak whp at redline
*Optional glass roof
*Blind spot side view mirrors.
*extra sound deadening material

It would cost a 2010 owner $10-20k to add all of the above to their car, so I don't see these future improvements adding that much to the msrp considering the deal of the century us 2011 GT500 owners got. Left over new 2011's are going for $46k now so if your on the fence jump now.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by BigDan

I don't think the price will increase that much. Just look at all the standard feature's Ford gave us 2011 owners for only a $1,200 increase over the 2010's

*Aluminum block
*Electric steering
*Silver finish on SC
*Blue power coat valve covers
*Improved exhaust manifolds
*Larger exhaust diameter
*H pipe vs 2010 X pipe
*Painted rear end
*Finned aluminum diff cover
*Improved brake cooling
*Auto start ignition
*40% larger inter cooler
*HID's standard
*No gas guzzler tax
*Flip up/ down rear headrests
* Improved under body aero dynamics
*Orange antifreeze
*Bigger faster more complex computer
*Wideband o2's?
*New colors
*Improved suspension, fixed the 2010's wheel hop.
*10 horsepower more but seems to make more like 20whp
*Factory "Boost a pump" for the fuel pump
*"My key" for limiting speed and TC for certain keys
*Different cam part numbers, some say its the Ford GT cams due to the 2011's making peak whp at redline
*Optional glass roof
*Blind spot side view mirrors.
*extra sound deadening material

It would cost a 2010 owner $10-20k to add all of the above to their car, so I don't see these future improvements to adding that much to the msrp considering the deal of the century us 2011 GT500 owners got. Left over new 2011's are going for $46 now so if your on the fence jump now.

Exactly what I am writing about. This stuff isn't free. The Camaro has taken a chunk out of Mustang sales and the added content for a minimal price increase means the per vehicle profit for Ford has dropped. I am not saying the Mustang is going away. I am saying that the Mustang and all vehicles must turn a profit. The high end high dollar Mustangs will not do that. Their calculated value is the halo effect for increasing sales of more profitable models or profit with increased utilisation of the assembly line.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Exactly what I am writing about. This stuff isn't free. The Camaro has taken a chunk out of Mustang sales and the added content for a minimal price increase means the per vehicle profit for Ford has dropped. I am not saying the Mustang is going away. I am saying that the Mustang and all vehicles must turn a profit. The high end high dollar Mustangs will not do that. Their calculated value is the halo effect for increasing sales of more profitable models or profit with increased utilisation of the assembly line.

This. Took the words right out of my mouth, well done.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I'm not assuming -- it's just some simple logic on my part for the purposes of speculation. More power = More $$$....in just a little more detail, they're going to need stronger parts to hand the higher powers under a factory warranty, the TVS units are more expensive than the old pieces they replaced several years ago, and the powertrain/transmission/etc that will need to be upgraded to go with it will be more expensive. There's just no escaping it.

Every component behind the 5.4L in the GT500 is perfectly comfortable behind the power level Ford is going to offer from the 2013 GT500 even from a production standpoint. Also the relatively minor changes that will be made in the bottom end of the new engine won't come close to offsetting the improvement in parts commonality Ford will gain by switching to the new design.

Having been in the automotive industry for many years I would bet my bottom dollar Ford is paying more per unit for the old rootes supercharger than they will be for the new TVS right now given the fact that they are one of the few rootes holdouts Eaton has left. Limited production has to be killing the price equation at this point and my bet says the switch to the TVS is as much a cost saving measure as anything.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

And I didn't know this was a "new" engine. The article posted made it sound like they massaged the 5.4L

It isn't a 5.4L or a derivative thereof, let your imagination be your guide from there.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Can you elaborate on that? I can accept everything up to the current GT500 as "affordable"...beyond that, while I understand the Mustang is Ford's only high-performance vehicle at the moment, I begin question the thought process...

You have to go back some time to be fair, but the original GT500's were pricey in their own right, and every original Shelby is pricey now. The collector market/enthusiasm for those cars is very obviously driving the acceptance of the GT500. If the GT500 goes there 60k plus won't be an issue.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

It is a business and not a hobby. If Ford loses money on the Mustang it will be gone along with the promise. The same is true of the Camaro. The F-150 is safe as long as it turns a profit. The name of the game is to move iron, just as it was when Henry Ford started the company.

You won't find a more ardent capitalist on these forums and I'll disagree outright that losing money means certain death. I was in the industry myself for quite some time, I've owned my own business, and even I can see the logic here. The Mustang brings too many intangibles to the table to be weighed on volume and profit alone, and Ford knows it.

Fortunately, Ford has made it clear that profit has yet to be a problem. Throw in the fact that, unlike GM, the family still calls the shots here, and I would say that the odds of Mustang ever going anywhere are slim to none.

[Qdiesel]

600 hp, huh??? It still will suck to launch and the times won't change much. Power doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't get it down.

[Sax1031]

Even at 60k Ford will sell 99.99% of all GT500s made.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

What makes anyone think they know what the ZL1 HP will be? #3 might know, but he never spills the beans.

Just the same way as the 2013 GT500.

620hp is a carrot hanging in the air.

[C5RocksC5]

Originally Posted by Qdiesel

600 hp, huh??? It still will suck to launch and the times won't change much. Power doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't get it down.

ummmm really?

[Qdiesel]

Really, lol.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Even at 60k Ford will sell 99.99% of all GT500s made.

Easy to do if you only make 1000.

A favorite saying of mine is; "76.4% of all statistics are made up"

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Easy to do if you only make 1000.

A favorite saying of mine is; "76.4% of all statistics are made up"

I am sure they are going to make 100k ZL1s a year.

Ford is not banking the company on a GT500.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I am sure they are going to make 100k ZL1s a year.

Ford is not banking the company on a GT500.

Did I say one or the other? Noooooooooooooooooo....

They'll make as many ZL1s as are demanded, but that's besides the point. If Ford sold 5000 GT500s this/last year, that number will go DOWN if they increase the price 20%. Does it matter? I don't know, I don't work for Ford.....that's all I'm saying.

And again, for good measure: I'm NOT implying either Chevy or Ford is right or wrong...I'm just observing and commenting.

[Sax1031]

A performance pack optioned GT500 is about 52k. Add more options and you hit 57k.

I am sure for the 60k the performance package will be standard.

8k increase in price is not going to run the people away who have the money for a 50k+ car to begin with.