February 2011 Camaro Sales and Production Figures

[Bowtiepower00]

We all have our preferences, I would not drive a Mustang if it was free. I am just glad that there are 3 distinct American Muscle Cars available for us to choose from. Just a few years ago, it was Mustang, or nothing. And Mopar was MIA for way too long.

You can cry about "bailouts" as much as you want, but at the end of the day, the money trickled down to the parts suppliers and allowed them to keep their doors open. If GM had failed, so to would have Ford and Chrysler who share these suppliers. Ford can claim that they didn't take the bailout to help boost sales all they want, but without the Gov't money being handed out, they would have been in serious trouble too.

Performance wise, we are splitting hairs, but lets not forget that competition is what improves the breed. If not for Camaro, Mustang would likely still have its 200 HP V6 and 300HP V8, not the powerhouses they are producing for 2012. Challenger had to improve too, or get left behind.

Really, things are like they've always been, Mustang is smaller and lighter, Mopar is bigger, heavier, and increasing cubes to compete, and Camaro is in the middle. They even resemble the cars made back in the hayday. We can sit here and bicker all we want, but the good ol days have returned, and without good sales from all parties involved, they will once again go the way of the dinosaur.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by BlaSSt Off

Really???

What you just showed me was two modded cars running two shitty times... Thanks...

[thePill]

Originally Posted by Bowtiepower00

We all have our preferences, I would not drive a Mustang if it was free. I am just glad that there are 3 distinct American Muscle Cars available for us to choose from. Just a few years ago, it was Mustang, or nothing. And Mopar was MIA for way too long.

You can cry about "bailouts" as much as you want, but at the end of the day, the money trickled down to the parts suppliers and allowed them to keep their doors open. If GM had failed, so to would have Ford and Chrysler who share these suppliers. Ford can claim that they didn't take the bailout to help boost sales all they want, but without the Gov't money being handed out, they would have been in serious trouble too.

Performance wise, we are splitting hairs, but lets not forget that competition is what improves the breed. If not for Camaro, Mustang would likely still have its 200 HP V6 and 300HP V8, not the powerhouses they are producing for 2012. Challenger had to improve too, or get left behind.

Really, things are like they've always been, Mustang is smaller and lighter, Mopar is bigger, heavier, and increasing cubes to compete, and Camaro is in the middle. They even resemble the cars made back in the hayday. We can sit here and bicker all we want, but the good ol days have returned, and without good sales from all parties involved, they will once again go the way of the dinosaur.

+1, well said....

[hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by thePill

Hands down sales go to the newer car, hands down... the ability to perform goes to the Mustang .

From what I've seen the GT500 has weak brakes for it's power and weight.

What performance are you measuring?

[hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

I have to ask this....

Don't you Ford lovers have Ford websites to hang around on?

I have never, nor will ever joined or posted on a Mustang forum.

Why do so many of you have the fixation to post here on a 5th Gen Camaro website?

Paid basher maybe? Hired to try and sway people from loving the Camaro, just like the paid bashers on stock trading forums.

[snakekiller]

sales numbers aren't everything, i always herd that from camaro owners.
somehow the roles were reversed, i don't see how someone can really expect the 7 year old mustang to sell more than the 2 year old camaro, specially one that look that good.

my hats off for GM, not for outselling the mustang but for bringing back the camaro,
sadly my beloved Firebird was killed.

[stand-al0ne]

Originally Posted by CUPRA

Yeah, the Challenger is a nice looking car on the outside, a bit dull on the inside, but it is way over priced. Seriously!

my thoughts exactly

[stand-al0ne]

also, to speak at this thread collectively, drive your cars boys

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

I have to ask this....

Don't you Ford lovers have Ford websites to hang around on?

I have never, nor will ever joined or posted on a Mustang forum.

Why do so many of you have the fixation to post here on a 5th Gen Camaro website?

Some people have nothing better to do with their lives.

[revwriter311]

Originally Posted by Bowtiepower00

You can cry about "bailouts" as much as you want, but at the end of the day, the money trickled down to the parts suppliers and allowed them to keep their doors open. If GM had failed, so to would have Ford and Chrysler who share these suppliers. Ford can claim that they didn't take the bailout to help boost sales all they want, but without the Gov't money being handed out, they would have been in serious trouble too.

Never thought I would get attacked by a fellow Camaro driver on a Camaro forum. I'm certainly not "crying" about bailouts, but rather drawing attention to GM's misleading marketing in the aftermath. And, for the record, you fail to acknowledge the millions of GM shareholders who were totally screwed over by the bankruptcy. The government kept the situation from going to Hell and thousands from losing their jobs, but GM certainly got themselves into a bigger mess than Ford did and hurt a lot of people. You may be quick to forgive all, but many people are not. My neighbor, an 80 year old lady, bought GM cars her entire life and proudly owned stock in the company. Last year, she purchased a brand new Toyota.

I am happy that the mustang has some competition from the Camaro and Challenger again. I don't think I would own a car like this otherwise. The mustang is the car all of my postmenopausal middle school teachers drove.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

and you are a GM brass who knows the inside scoop? I am not defending Ford but do you even know why Ford opted out of the bail out money in the end? Ford had enough of their own money to last a few years from the time the sh#T hit the fan. GM was bankrupt and .... well, I hope u know the rest.

Ford was in deeeeep trouble in 2006. They borrowed every dime they could get their hands on when there was actually credit available. It wasn't "their" money as you suggest. They didn't have any. Did they make good use of it? You bet. But remember, Ford used the threat of GM to get every single concesion from the UAW except the no strike clause and got their debt reduced to the same levels as GM. Ford was quite clever to ride along in the shadow and go, "hey, you have to give me that deal too or I might be bankrupt" Also remember back in the 80's when every other month Chrysler and Ford layed off workers? GM to it's fault kept those people working. The reductions by Ford and Chrysler is what allowed them to have significantly lower legacy costs 25 to 30 years later. Almost half as many retirees per worker as GM.

Keep in mind, GMs problems were legacy costs, not running the business. Imagine trying to start a business where your model is you have to pay 4 workers pension and all their families health care before you even begin to manufacture your product or provide your service. No one gives GM credit for keeping that business model going as long as it did.

Originally Posted by revwriter311

Never thought I would get attacked by a fellow Camaro driver on a Camaro forum. I'm certainly not "crying" about bailouts, but rather drawing attention to GM's misleading marketing in the aftermath. And, for the record, you fail to acknowledge the millions of GM shareholders who were totally screwed over by the bankruptcy. The government kept the situation from going to Hell and thousands from losing their jobs, but GM certainly got themselves into a bigger mess than Ford did and hurt a lot of people. You may be quick to forgive all, but many people are not. My neighbor, an 80 year old lady, bought GM cars her entire life and proudly owned stock in the company. Last year, she purchased a brand new Toyota.

I am happy that the mustang has some competition from the Camaro and Challenger again. I don't think I would own a car like this otherwise. The mustang is the car all of my postmenopausal middle school teachers drove.

What misleading marketing are you refering too?

Anyone complaining about that isn't quite getting that buying stock is like going to Vegas. If you study hard and pay attention, you might make a few bucks, but unattended you are at your own risk. I know what my own father did with GM stock as a loyal employee and retiree and, rest his soul, I'd kick him in the ass if I knew he was hanging his 401k on GM stock...........and this was 10 years ago. I can tell you the story about the guy that went "all in" on GM stock at $7 KNOWING it couldn't go lower, then haveing to explain to his wife how he lost their 401k. No stock holder ever had a guarantee or contract to make money or even break even on GM stock. Hell, I lost money, but I was advised to get out back when it was $40. Not sure what advice everyone else got. Yes, some older folks still looked at GM stock as a "Blue Chip" that paid a great dividend. But if they were paying attention or getting any advice (my dad sure wasn't) they would have been out longggg ago. Do I feel bad? Sure. I know a lot of people that were hurt by the GM Stock going in the toilet. But there were never any guarantees. Go buy a share of any stock traded today and tell me what guarantee you have of it's worth tomorrow or next week or next year. You can't.

Now do you want to have a discussion on the U.S. governments trade policies and letting Japan manipulate the price of the Yen and the long term impact to American industries???? Simply having government paid healtchcare in Japan and Germany provides an additional profit for each of those cars sold, putting the old Big 3 at a HUGE disadvantage, ultimately leaving a pension and health care debt that wasn't manageable.

Did anybody see that the Camaro outsold the Mustang? Cool.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ford was in deeeeep trouble in 2006. They borrowed every dime they could get their hands on when there was actually credit available. It wasn't "their" money as you suggest. They didn't have any. Did they make good use of it? You bet. But remember, Ford used the threat of GM to get every single concesion from the UAW except the no strike clause and got their debt reduced to the same levels as GM. Ford was quite clever to ride along in the shadow and go, "hey, you have to give me that deal too or I might be bankrupt" Also remember back in the 80's when every other month Chrysler and Ford layed off workers? GM to it's fault kept those people working. The reductions by Ford and Chrysler is what allowed them to have significantly lower legacy costs 25 to 30 years later. Almost half as many retirees per worker as GM.

Keep in mind, GMs problems were legacy costs, not running the business. Imagine trying to start a business where your model is you have to pay 4 workers pension and all their families health care before you even begin to manufacture your product or provide your service. No one gives GM credit for keeping that business model going as long as it did.



What misleading marketing are you refering too?

Anyone complaining about that isn't quite getting that buying stock is like going to Vegas. If you study hard and pay attention, you might make a few bucks, but unattended you are at your own risk. I know what my own father did with GM stock as a loyal employee and retiree and, rest his soul, I'd kick him in the ass if I knew he was hanging his 401k on GM stock...........and this was 10 years ago. I can tell you the story about the guy that went "all in" on GM stock at $7 KNOWING it couldn't go lower, then haveing to explain to his wife how he lost their 401k. No stock holder ever had a guarantee or contract to make money or even break even on GM stock. Hell, I lost money, but I was advised to get out back when it was $40. Not sure what advice everyone else got. Yes, some older folks still looked at GM stock as a "Blue Chip" that paid a great dividend. But if they were paying attention or getting any advice (my dad sure wasn't) they would have been out longggg ago. Do I feel bad? Sure. I know a lot of people that were hurt by the GM Stock going in the toilet. But there were never any guarantees. Go buy a share of any stock traded today and tell me what guarantee you have of it's worth tomorrow or next week or next year. You can't.

Now do you want to have a discussion on the U.S. governments trade policies and letting Japan manipulate the price of the Yen and the long term impact to American industries???? Simply having government paid healtchcare in Japan and Germany provides an additional profit for each of those cars sold, putting the old Big 3 at a HUGE disadvantage, ultimately leaving a pension and health care debt that wasn't manageable.

Did anybody see that the Camaro outsold the Mustang? Cool.

A GREAT Factual response that will be lost on quiet a few here who like to go around with their heads in the sand.

Thanks Number 3.

[radz28]

Maybe CAMARO5 should make a corral for all the ponys so they can keep their fanboyism in there. Why do I have to see them peaing all over every good thread in the Forum daily. I see talk about our fanboyism then read hypocritical suggestive posts by the same people.

This is getting old.

[revwriter311]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ford was in deeeeep trouble in 2006. They borrowed every dime they could get their hands on when there was actually credit available. It wasn't "their" money as you suggest. They didn't have any. Did they make good use of it? You bet. But remember, Ford used the threat of GM to get every single concesion from the UAW except the no strike clause and got their debt reduced to the same levels as GM. Ford was quite clever to ride along in the shadow and go, "hey, you have to give me that deal too or I might be bankrupt" Also remember back in the 80's when every other month Chrysler and Ford layed off workers? GM to it's fault kept those people working. The reductions by Ford and Chrysler is what allowed them to have significantly lower legacy costs 25 to 30 years later. Almost half as many retirees per worker as GM.

Keep in mind, GMs problems were legacy costs, not running the business. Imagine trying to start a business where your model is you have to pay 4 workers pension and all their families health care before you even begin to manufacture your product or provide your service. No one gives GM credit for keeping that business model going as long as it did.



What misleading marketing are you refering too?

Anyone complaining about that isn't quite getting that buying stock is like going to Vegas. If you study hard and pay attention, you might make a few bucks, but unattended you are at your own risk. I know what my own father did with GM stock as a loyal employee and retiree and, rest his soul, I'd kick him in the ass if I knew he was hanging his 401k on GM stock...........and this was 10 years ago. I can tell you the story about the guy that went "all in" on GM stock at $7 KNOWING it couldn't go lower, then haveing to explain to his wife how he lost their 401k. No stock holder ever had a guarantee or contract to make money or even break even on GM stock. Hell, I lost money, but I was advised to get out back when it was $40. Not sure what advice everyone else got. Yes, some older folks still looked at GM stock as a "Blue Chip" that paid a great dividend. But if they were paying attention or getting any advice (my dad sure wasn't) they would have been out longggg ago. Do I feel bad? Sure. I know a lot of people that were hurt by the GM Stock going in the toilet. But there were never any guarantees. Go buy a share of any stock traded today and tell me what guarantee you have of it's worth tomorrow or next week or next year. You can't.

Now do you want to have a discussion on the U.S. governments trade policies and letting Japan manipulate the price of the Yen and the long term impact to American industries???? Simply having government paid healtchcare in Japan and Germany provides an additional profit for each of those cars sold, putting the old Big 3 at a HUGE disadvantage, ultimately leaving a pension and health care debt that wasn't manageable.

Did anybody see that the Camaro outsold the Mustang? Cool.

Thanks for the condescending stock market lesson. The entire reason I point out the misleading marketing ("we repaid our government loans in full" when Uncle Sam still owned 60% of the company) and discuss the fact that many hardworking Americans were screwed over by poor management at GM (bankruptcy), is simply to say that many people are loyal to a particular company to a fault. When I see the sales numbers each month, I don't go have a party for GM. Instead, I take note that a lot more people like the Camaro better than the mustang right now, confirming the conclusion I made when I bought my car: the Camaro is the better, more desirable car at this point in time.