Shno's House of Z

[Scarrzz]

The hill in front of my house is marginally famous for preventing even emergency vehicles from going further without chains. Last year a fire truck took out our curb. Even the salt & sand trucks get stuck here.

Yes, low traction surface PLUS a good hill means you may be in need of AWD.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by E. Bryant

I don't know how this is even up for debate, as driving four wheels is way better than two on a low-mu surface - especially when the system is capable of intelligently distributing the torque. There is no "promise" to buy into; physics and common sense tell us all we need to know, and if that's not enough, then try out a good AWD system in winter weather and report back.

Of course, some people will take that additional forward grip and use it to get into trouble once it's time to stop or turn. This is the fault of the driver, not the drivetrain.

Well that's just it. Around here, people swear by AWD like it's magical. Point their nose up at me and my winter-tire-clad Camaro. And yet most of the vehicles flung off into a ditch during winter are AWD. Consequently...I've had FWD car with all-season tires...and now the Camaro with RWD and winter tires, and I got stuck with the Cobalt many times, but never with the Camaro. It's astounding the crap I can get through...while I watch the AWD folks struggle and spin because they're still on all-seasons.

Many variables, is where I'm coming from - not the least of which is the driver. I'm sure that I would noticed and appreciate the foul-weather benefit of AWD, myself. But I haven't ever felt the need to go out and get a vehicle with AWD, yet.

[brt3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Well that's just it. Around here, people swear by AWD like it's magical. Point their nose up at me and my winter-tire-clad Camaro. And yet most of the vehicles flung off into a ditch during winter are AWD. Consequently...I've had FWD car with all-season tires...and now the Camaro with RWD and winter tires, and I got stuck with the Cobalt many times, but never with the Camaro. It's astounding the crap I can get through...while I watch the AWD folks struggle and spin because they're still on all-seasons.

Many variables, is where I'm coming from - not the least of which is the driver. I'm sure that I would noticed and appreciate the foul-weather benefit of AWD, myself. But I haven't ever felt the need to go out and get a vehicle with AWD, yet.

You nailed it. For DD usage I'm sure AWD is great. However, for honing your skills, RWD is way more fun. Quicker on track? It's more about the total package than any one thing, as the Z/28 and C7 Z06/7 demonstrate.

I've driven RWD at Rally Schools in mud, snow, and on ice. When you master a RWD car in those conditions, you feel like you've really accomplished something.

At a recent COTA HPDE I was in awe of the GT-Rs and how quickly they could go in the rain. However, some of them start to believe they're invincible -- until they're not:

[Scarrzz]

Too true Dragon.. Err, Mr Wyndham.

To paraphrase Yogi...

" Driving is ninety percent mental and the other half is the driver. "

And yes, it IS a heckofalot more fun with RWD. The caveat is that when you're dealing with a sheet of ice as opposed to packed snow, no amount of skill can overcome the physics.

I wonder how much weight would be added for a RWD/AWD switchable system.

Fun until you really need grip. Like Tony Stark said, "Is it too much to ask for both?"

[Bhobbs]

Talking about the Iowa class reminded me of my trip to the USS Iowa. I finally found a picture.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Well that's just it. Around here, people swear by AWD like it's magical. Point their nose up at me and my winter-tire-clad Camaro. And yet most of the vehicles flung off into a ditch during winter are AWD. Consequently...I've had FWD car with all-season tires...and now the Camaro with RWD and winter tires, and I got stuck with the Cobalt many times, but never with the Camaro. It's astounding the crap I can get through...while I watch the AWD folks struggle and spin because they're still on all-seasons.

Many variables, is where I'm coming from - not the least of which is the driver. I'm sure that I would noticed and appreciate the foul-weather benefit of AWD, myself. But I haven't ever felt the need to go out and get a vehicle with AWD, yet.

True winter tires on a RWD car will outperform a FWD with all season tires. I've done it for 10 years and my GTO is more controlled than my wife's FWD by a wide margin.

AWD would be an advantage to those who don't want to deal with changing tire on a RWD Camaro every spring/fall and I bet it would attract more entry level buyer.

FYI - My wife's car was available in FWD or AWD and we felt FWD was enough for the few snow days

FYI 2 - In Germany, winter tires are mandatory for all cars

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by brt3

You nailed it. For DD usage I'm sure AWD is great. However, for honing your skills, RWD is way more fun. Quicker on track? It's more about the total package than any one thing, as the Z/28 and C7 Z06/7 demonstrate.

I've driven RWD at Rally Schools in mud, snow, and on ice. When you master a RWD car in those conditions, you feel like you've really accomplished something.

At a recent COTA HPDE I was in awe of the GT-Rs and how quickly they could go in the rain. However, some of them start to believe they're invincible -- until they're not:

Yikes!! That doesn't look like it was very fun!

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

Too true Dragon.. Err, Mr Wyndham.

To paraphrase Yogi...

" Driving is ninety percent mental and the other half is the driver. "

...and just wait until I change my name again.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Talking about the Iowa class reminded me of my trip to the USS Iowa. I finally found a picture.

We have a missile cruiser permanently moored in our harbor here in Buffalo...and for all the years I've been working on the waterfront - I have not taken the opportunity to get on board and get a picture like that. What's wrong with me??

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

True winter tires on a RWD car will outperform a FWD with all season tires. I've done it for 10 years and my GTO is more controlled than my wife's FWD by a wide margin.

AWD would be an advantage to those who don't want to deal with changing tire on a RWD Camaro every spring/fall and I bet it would attract more entry level buyer.

FYI - My wife's car was available in FWD or AWD and we felt FWD was enough for the few snow days

FYI 2 - In Germany, winter tires are mandatory for all cars

The same is True in Montreal, Canada (a few hours north of me) - required winter tires in the shivery season.

After experiencing the difference that winter tires offer...so long as I live here, I will never drive another winter without them. FWD, AWD, or RWD.

[Number 3]

What? No chains?

Tires make a huge difference. Tough comparing drive axles AND tires. Number 3 as you recall was in the winter with just all season tires and that got me pretty much everywhere with ease. Even up my driveway which could not be climbed with RWD or FWD with summer only tires.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Enough about winter.....What does the house think about this car:

The "Ultimate Track SS" by Chevy performance parts:



Leveraging key components of the Camaro Z/28 – recipient of Motor Trend’s 2014 Best Driver’s Car award – the Ultimate Track Camaro SS concepts demonstrated the ultimate in track capability for SS models.

Along with the additional power supplied by its enhanced LS3 6.2L engine – featuring a camshaft kit and CNC-ported cylinder heads available from Chevrolet Performance – the Ultimate Track Camaro SS was 2.9 seconds faster than the Ultimate Street Camaro SS, and 8.7 seconds faster than the stock Camaro SS.

“With the Z/28 parts, the Camaro SS is transformed into an entirely track-focused machine,” said Mark Dickens. “The steering is responsive and precise, allowing you to carve down to the apex with ease – and it confidently gets the power to the ground while exiting turns. Perhaps even more amazing is that the on-track transformation is accessible with parts that literally bolt on to any 2010-and-newer Camaro SS.”

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...-mt-event.html

Parts Include:

• LS3 Power Upgrade Kit (heads cam, Chevy calibration: +40hp, 7100rpm redline)
• Z/28 suspension kit with DSSV® Dampers
• 1LE strut tower brace
• Z/28 helical differential
• Z/28 differential cooler
• Z/28 aero components kit
• Z/28 brake ducts kit
• Z/28 rear spoiler wicker bill
• Z/28 air intake
• Z/28 cat-back exhaust system
• Z/28 exhaust adapters
• ZL1 wheel hubs
• ZL1 front brake kit
• 1LE tires: Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar G:2 – P285/35ZR20
• 1LE wheels: 20 x 10-inch front and 20 x 11-inch rear
• 1LE PCV system
• Chevrolet Performance short-throw shifter

Milford Road Course Best Lap Times:
Camaro Z/28 -------- 1:53.71
Ultimate Track SS --- 1:56.43
Camaro ZL1 --------- 1:56.58
Camaro 1LE --------- 1:58.85
Boss 302 LS --------- 1:59:05
Mustang GT500 ----- 1:59.97

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Enough about winter.....What does the house think about this car:

The "Ultimate Track SS" by Chevy performance parts:

Attachment 709650

Leveraging key components of the Camaro Z/28 – recipient of Motor Trend’s 2014 Best Driver’s Car award – the Ultimate Track Camaro SS concepts demonstrated the ultimate in track capability for SS models.

Along with the additional power supplied by its enhanced LS3 6.2L engine – featuring a camshaft kit and CNC-ported cylinder heads available from Chevrolet Performance – the Ultimate Track Camaro SS was 2.9 seconds faster than the Ultimate Street Camaro SS, and 8.7 seconds faster than the stock Camaro SS.

“With the Z/28 parts, the Camaro SS is transformed into an entirely track-focused machine,” said Mark Dickens. “The steering is responsive and precise, allowing you to carve down to the apex with ease – and it confidently gets the power to the ground while exiting turns. Perhaps even more amazing is that the on-track transformation is accessible with parts that literally bolt on to any 2010-and-newer Camaro SS.”

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/...-mt-event.html

Parts Include:

• LS3 Power Upgrade Kit (heads cam, Chevy calibration: +40hp, 7100rpm redline)
• Z/28 suspension kit with DSSV® Dampers
• 1LE strut tower brace
• Z/28 helical differential
• Z/28 differential cooler
• Z/28 aero components kit
• Z/28 brake ducts kit
• Z/28 rear spoiler wicker bill
• Z/28 air intake
• Z/28 cat-back exhaust system
• Z/28 exhaust adapters
• ZL1 wheel hubs
• ZL1 front brake kit
• 1LE tires: Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar G:2 – P285/35ZR20
• 1LE wheels: 20 x 10-inch front and 20 x 11-inch rear
• 1LE PCV system
• Chevrolet Performance short-throw shifter

Milford Road Course Best Lap Times:
Camaro Z/28 -------- 1:53.71
Ultimate Track SS --- 1:56.43
Camaro ZL1 --------- 1:56.58
Camaro 1LE --------- 1:58.85
Boss 302 LS --------- 1:59:05
Mustang GT500 ----- 1:59.97

Anyone know the cost to do this? Where are the 2.7 seconds at?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Anyone know the cost to do this? Where are the 2.7 seconds at?

It's costs a lot, I haven't priced everything out yet. But...if you started with a 1SS, it's less than a Z/28...

The 2.7 seconds are probably in the tires and brakes that the Z/28 has.

I was going through some old documents I have, and came across this. Thought I'd share it. What's astonishing to me is what you can do from Chevy/Camaro performance parts alone, all of it legitimate components of an existing Camaro. It's exactly the Camaro I always wanted to have. NA, "light", track-monster. And with the exception of cost, they make going fast easy!

[JusticePete]

The difference is all in the wheel and tire package.

[Bhobbs]

They should have sold that as the 2LE.

It still runs the 285 Goodyears.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It still runs the 285 Goodyears.

Exactly, the difference is in the wheels and tires on the Z/28.