GM headed backwards?

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by truth411

Fact #3 This goes for all companys, anyone judgeing a company based on stocks that only been on the market for a few months is being totaly premature and jumping the gun to soon. If thats how anyone invest in the stock market your going to loose more money then gain. I'd Give GM a solid 5 years before makeing any conclusions.

Well I made my prediction on the stock BEFORE the IPO. I didn't wait to see what happened. I did my research. And I was right, it's lower than before the IPO. As to those who lost money, that's not me. That's what happened to those people who jumped on the IPO.

Originally Posted by truth411

Fact #4 As long as GM keep pumping out Great cars and trucks it looks like they will (ATS, 6 gen Camaro, next gen equinox, next gen CTS, next gen Full Size Trucks etc...) they should be fine and investors will gladly come around seeing that GM is continuing to be profitable but that takes time not a few months. Its just that everybody is real skeptical right now, and thats totaly understandable.

This is correct. Of course they are real skeptical right now for a big reason, the last group of GM investors got SCREWED big time.

I'm also skeptical because GM put alot of eggs in the Volt basket, and it is not selling good at all. And that's even with the Federal Government literally paying people to buy them. FYI, I also predicted that one as well.

Originally Posted by truth411

Fact #5 you will probaly ignore this whole post and continue search for any article that paints GM in a bad light THAT DOES NOT GIVE OUT ALL THE INFO inorder to do it. Others will search for news on the internet that never critize Gm on anything, I don't see how your extreme justifies the other. But at the end of the Day, GM is not in that bad of a position and from a vehicle chasis stand point they are stronger than Ford and Chysler.

Well you're wrong. How am I extreme when I did research, looked at that research objectively, and then was right on the money?

I don't know what you mean by "vehicle chasis stand point", but GM rates behind Ford in reliability. However, they do rate higher in that regard than Chrysler does.

Of course I'm also confused as to why you call predictions you are making "facts".

[GoldBowtie]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

I don't know what you mean by "vehicle chasis stand point", but GM rates behind Ford in reliability. However, they do rate higher in that regard than Chrysler does.

Of course I'm also confused as to why you call predictions you are making "facts".

I can't EVER remember Ford F150 beating Chevy Silverado in reliability/durability!

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by GoldBowtie

I can't EVER remember Ford F150 beating Chevy Silverado in reliability/durability!

You probably know this already but I think he was speaking in overall terms....

[truth411]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Well I made my prediction on the stock BEFORE the IPO. I didn't wait to see what happened. I did my research. And I was right, it's lower than before the IPO. As to those who lost money, that's not me. That's what happened to those people who jumped on the IPO.



This is correct. Of course they are real skeptical right now for a big reason, the last group of GM investors got SCREWED big time.

I'm also skeptical because GM put alot of eggs in the Volt basket, and it is not selling good at all. And that's even with the Federal Government literally paying people to buy them. FYI, I also predicted that one as well.



Well you're wrong. How am I extreme when I did research, looked at that research objectively, and then was right on the money?

I don't know what you mean by "vehicle chasis stand point", but GM rates behind Ford in reliability. However, they do rate higher in that regard than Chrysler does.

Of course I'm also confused as to why you call predictions you are making "facts".

Yup I'm done here and going to classify this as another person who don't know what hes talking about and will continue to switch stances inorder to win any debate rather than learn something inoder to make an educated decision. But Just for your FYI Vehicle chasis is the platform cars are built on and sometimes shared for multiple models.
Camaro= Zeta II Chasis, CTS= Sigma chasis, Enclave= Lamba Chasis, Lacrosse= epsilom II etc.. @LOL at the Volt comment. Latter.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by truth411

Yup I'm done here and going to classify this as another person who don't know what hes talking about and will continue to switch stances inorder to win any debate

Can you not read, or is it the comprehension part that confuses you?

I obviously know what I'm talking about, I didn't lose money buying GM stock at the IPO. I also predicted the Volt would flop, and I'm looking good on that one too. And where did I switch stances? I've been very consistant.

And FYI, my prediction on the Volt had nothing to do with it being a GM product. I clearly stated Americans are not going to buy electric cars. I used history to predict that one. Notice the Nissan Leaf is selling even worse than the Volt (here in the US).

Originally Posted by truth411

rather than learn something inoder to make an educated decision.

I made an educated decision not to buy at the IPO, and I was right.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

I'm also skeptical because GM put alot of eggs in the Volt basket, and it is not selling good at all. And that's even with the Federal Government literally paying people to buy them. FYI, I also predicted that one as well.

It isn't selling well because they haven't ramped up production to anything approaching normal levels, and they had absolutely no intentions of doing so in the early goings.

And while GM did put a lot of money into the Volt program, it was probably only something like 50-100% more than they'd spend on a conventional program. However, much of that added cost is a one time deal. For the 2nd and 3rd generation of the Volt, as well as its relatives such as the Ampra, they'll just build on what they already have. Plus, by going out and doing something like the Volt they can apply things they've learned to make conventional cars more efficient, resulting in models like the Cruze Eco.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by GoldBowtie

I can't EVER remember Ford F150 beating Chevy Silverado in reliability/durability!

Don't bother. Also don't let him sucker you into changing the topic away from the article in the OP, as he tried to do with me.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

It isn't selling well because they haven't ramped up production to anything approaching normal levels, and they had absolutely no intentions of doing so in the early goings.

For the 2nd and 3rd generation of the Volt, ....

But the ones they have offered for sale are not selling. Just because you make more does not mean people will buy more. If the 1st Generation is a flop, I would hope GM just stops there and doesn't continue to try and improve something no one wants. I don't recall seeing multiple generations of the Aztek, so they got that one right.

Originally Posted by truth411

Don't bother. Also don't let him sucker you into changing the topic away from the article in the OP, as he tried to do with me.

Yeah, when discussing the state (and future) of GM, things like reliability, sales, and stock prices are just ways to change the topic.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

But the ones they have offered for sale are not selling. Just because you make more does not mean people will buy more. If the 1st Generation is a flop, I would hope GM just stops there and doesn't continue to try and improve something no one wants. I don't recall seeing multiple generations of the Aztek, so they got that one right.



Yeah, when discussing the state (and future) of GM, things like reliability, sales, and stock prices are just ways to change the topic.

Well You have been informed how the article is misleading, you chose to ignore and not recognize that. You have been informed that judgeing stock prices that has been on the market for a few months is silly no matter the company, you chose to ignore and not recognize that either. You already called anyone who disagree with you a GM fanboy and Koolaid drinker, even though people have been articulating why this article is misleading. Not possible to hold an inteligent conversation with someone like that so... End conversation. But wether you choose to recognize it or not is irrelevent, GM is in not that bad of a position as long as they play there cards right, and because they are the strongest from a vehicle chasis stand point it will lead to products soon that Ford or Chrysler cant compete with soon. (Alpha Chasis for example). Caddilac is just a couple years away from truly being world class over most its lineup instead of just the CTS, Buick is the Fastest growing brand in america etc... they should be fine.

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by truth411

Well You have been informed how the article is misleading, you chose to ignore and not recognize that. You have been informed that judgeing stock prices that has been on the market for a few months is silly no matter the company, you chose to ignore and not recognize that either. You already called anyone who disagree with you a GM fanboy and Koolaid drinker, even though people have been articulating why this article is misleading. Not possible to hold an inteligent conversation with someone like that so... End conversation. But wether you choose to recognize it or not is irrelevent, GM is in not that bad of a position as long as they play there cards right, and because they are the strongest from a vehicle chasis stand point it will lead to products soon that Ford or Chrysler cant compete with soon. (Alpha Chasis for example). Caddilac is just a couple years away from truly being world class over most its lineup instead of just the CTS, Buick is the Fastest growing brand in america etc... they should be fine.

I have been reading these rants of yours and must say that IMO, 90% of them are baseless opinions of yours and nonsensical YES.....HERE IT COMES....fanboism. GM isn't some Johny Come Lately, so to say it's not "fair" to judge them on a couple months of revenue and performance statistics is silly, even though they're emerging from that self inflicted bankruptcy mess. They now have the assistance of the tax payers so they had damn well better be making headway in terms of product development and bringing redesigned vehicles to market. You're missing the point that 1bad is trying to make. He, and others, said months ago that this would happen after the IPO and it's now happening. If this trend continues, will that mean that even MORE people are wrong or misguided?? Come on man.

[8cd03gro]

Raise your hand if you're still arguing, have a valid point, and real trading experience to back it up. . . Nobody? Ok great. /argument

I called exactly what was going to happen to PPS before the IPO and I absolutely assure you it is going to continue. Why? OS is going to increase drastically either from SPO or simple dilution. That doesn't mean GM won't stay healthy, it means investors are not going to be happy in the short term. The conclusions drawn form the article are a stretch, but the concerns are real. What do you look at for indication of future profit when said company just effectively sold $52 billion of common stock that didn't exist a year ago? Management. If current financials weren't positive it would be a HORRIBLE sign for GM. They're exactly where they should be right now as any company that isn't profitable after that bailout would be an absolutely devastating failure. The question is, is management equipped for what lies ahead and will they make the same mistakes as old management? Those are the most important questions anyone looking to invest SHOULD be asking and that's why the concerns that lead to the exaggerated conclusion of the article are real. Scrutinizing management is exactly what needs to be happening right now. In summation, I am NOT, I repeat, NOT saying GM is in trouble. I'm saying that these are not bogus concerns that come out of nowhere, these are the exact questions that investors need to be asking and they should be considered rather than tossed aside as blind hatred of GM.

P.S.

Saying the market isn't based on tangible concerns just tells anyone that trades that you haven't got a clue. Take those comments to the OTC pennyland where they're accurate, the big board movement is a whole different story. It's about mass psychology and when you have a huge sample size (GM investors) losing confidence in the future of the brand, that has a very real effect on projected sales. That doesn't mean it's the end-all, or that GM is in trouble, but it's extremely naive to assume it means nothing at all.

[REEFBLUE93]

E

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Raise your hand if you're still arguing, have a valid point, and real trading experience to back it up. . . Nobody? Ok great. /argument

You don't need trading experience to see what's going on here. It's common sense, kind of like getting a drink of water when you're thirsty. I'll wait until my 4 yr old gets home from Pre K and see if he can shed some light on this mind bender....

[Mr. Wyndham]

GM's not moving backwards....

Ridiculous to propose anything other...