ZL1 for MSRP or lower?

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Car dealerships are businesses. Businesses exist to make a profit. Asking a price for a high-demand product that is greater than said product's actual value equals a chance at more profit.

How, exactly, does that make a dealership asking for a premium "unethical"? A new car, especially a performance care like the ZL1 is not something anyone is entitled to, nor is it GM's purpsose to ensure anybody who wants one in their garage gets one. Does placing an ADM on a car put it out of reach for a lot of folks? Yep, but I et they will be ale to sell as many as they make, markup or not.

Because it's price gouging and fleecing consumers. As awesome as the ZL1 is, it's a Chevy, not a limited run Ferrari. Heck, I can almost see your point with the limited run Leguna Seca Boss 302, but Chevy will build as many ZL1's as the market dictates. These dealers are just taking advantage of a limited window of lower availability at launch based on their greed.

The ZR1, Chevy's ultimate performance vehicle, was marked up at some dealers at $20k+, now just two years later it can be bought for way under MSRP (I've seen $10k under). Enjoy the depreciation hit on that because you thought the dealer was justified in financially raping you.

[ezleeinfamous]

Just wondering...If there is a Z28 built at a later date, which will be the fastest/best performance car..ZL1 or Z28?

I'm #3 on the list at my dealer.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

How, exactly, does that make a dealership asking for a premium "unethical"?

It's not "unethical" -- and you are right, it's business.

However, the manufacturer's suggested retail price is CLEARLY written on every vehicle so the customer is not fooled into paying more than what everyone else is.

How much gall does a dealership have to have to go and post their own sticker on car telling a paying customer: "YOU have to pay more...cause we're dicks."

But what's WORSE!!....is when people simply accept it and pay because they have more money than sense....it makes it okay to rip off the customer because there's some sucker who'll pay...It's not unethical...it's just wrong.

[The_Blur]

I want to throw a curveball at this whole MSRP or less idea. If GM gives you an MSRP of $19,995 for the ZR1, would you pay sticker? You'd see it as a good deal, or so I guess. If they offer the car for $53,995, would it be a rip-off? Would you pay sticker for a 550-hp supercharged monster with the best available styling, suspension, power, and overall performance? How much is too much? None of us know what it really costs to build this thing, but I can assure you it is more than you think.

There's something to be said about always getting a great deal. The business of selling cars is a lot about coming to the middle. They want to sell it for too much. We want to buy it for too little. For some reason, salespeople are dirt bags for selling cars at full price, but it is acceptable for us to buy cars for thousands under cost. Something about that doesn't seem fair.

Now, you're dealer is still an idiot, but we're here because we're enthusiastic about a company that gives us a product so great that we talk about it when we're not driving it. That's why Camaro5 thrives. It isn't that the Camaro is cool. It is because the enthusiasts are just what they should be: enthusiastic. Some of us are so enthusiastic that cost was not an issue in getting an early Camaro.

Let's also consider the cost of building a car like that. GM didn't just throw parts from other cars on the Camaro and call it a ZL1. They planned those parts and tuned them specifically for the Camaro. It took a lot of testing and time. Someone has to pay those people.

Finally, can we talk about profit? Profit is not a dirty word. You want your company to be profitable so you can earn raises, bonuses, overtime, and other benefits at your job. Shouldn't GM be the same way? If they aren't able to afford to keep offering cars like the Camaro, they will be cut from production when they get old. We need GM to price this car low enough that lots of people buy and high enough to make room for future models and hire or retain the best available talent. This talent led to the Camaro, and they need to be around for the next generation.

The point here is that the deal you get on the car should be something worth the cost. I spent a lot of money on my Camaro LS because that car is worth it. It is priced with the competition, and it wins. That makes it a good deal. You should expect to pay more for more, but I could have spent the same and ended up in less car if anyone outside of GM made it. I stretched to get to where I needed to be because I couldn't imagine driving anything else. The Camaro is part of who I am. If the ZL1 is for you, then you should pay for it because it is worth something. Does that mean GM is going to charge an exorbitant amount of money for what is a ridiculously badass machine? I don't think so. GM will try to keep costs down while establishing a high level of excellence—some might even say dominance—over the competition. It will probably have similar costs to similar competition plus the additional technology. GM is going to pay close attention to competitors when considering the price. That's obvious. GM wasn't stupid with the Camaros so far. Let's all lean back and keep the faith the GM is going to do it right and price it right.

I hope this post isn't too controversial.

[oldfriend]

Originally Posted by mpate16

any chance this happens? have no idea bout price but was just curious.

FROM THE GET GO ? I WANT THE SAME STUF THAT YOU ARE SMOKING TO!!!

[hairtrigger]

I have it in writing, when I dropped a healthy deposit to be their first ordered ZL1, that it would be at MSRP and would include GM incentives like GM loyalty, if any.

[Capthowdy]

if you went to a dealer down here and said you would like to put a deposit on tthe new ZL1 camaro to be the first in production and pay MSRP...they would say....WHAT'S AN ZL1 Camaro?...Never heard of it ...dont know what your talking about..but we have some great looking verts for sale!!!!

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

Because it's price gouging and fleecing consumers. As awesome as the ZL1 is, it's a Chevy, not a limited run Ferrari. Heck, I can almost see your point with the limited run Leguna Seca Boss 302, but Chevy will build as many ZL1's as the market dictates. These dealers are just taking advantage of a limited window of lower availability at launch based on their greed.

The ZR1, Chevy's ultimate performance vehicle, was marked up at some dealers at $20k+, now just two years later it can be bought for way under MSRP (I've seen $10k under). Enjoy the depreciation hit on that because you thought the dealer was justified in financially raping you.

The only way a dealer is able to fleece the consumer is if the consumer actual agrees to buy the car at the stated price. Again, nobody is bringing you in at gunpoint to buy the car at an inflated price. The consumer makes the choice to either buy the car at the asking price (or negotiated price) or leave the dealership.

I think you will find that while there may be a few consumers who don't know what the actual MSRP on a car is, almost everyone I know who paid a premium to get into a 1st prodcution run car (be it a GT500, ZR1, Challenger SRT8, etc.) knew what they were doing and were willing to pay the ADM.

As you state, GM is likely to build a crap-ton of the new ZL1 Camaro, so if you simply resist the urge to be one of the "first" to have one in your neighborhood, you won't have to worry about a dealer mark-up anyway. It seems to me this whole issue with dealer ADM's is simply sour grapes from folks for whom a $50K msrp is already stretching, or exceeding, their budget and having a dealer add on any $$ pushes it out of the real of possibility. Welcome to the real world where things are not always fair.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Welcome to the real world where things are not always fair.

Dad? Is that you?

I agree with the sentiment. Early adopters in any industry always pay more (electronics, cars, etc).

[Mark Myles]

Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies..

Based on what I'm reading, this will be interesting to follow.

My "guess" is that the ZL1 will come with a heafty price tag. Based on this, there will be less buyers. We have already determined there are several members willing to pay $50+ for this vehicle.

Now come the dealerships. I'm "guessing", because I haven't seen a dealer step up and post this, but lets assume there will be a hand full of dealers that will sell the ZL1 at sticker price. The question that begs an answer is.."how much allotment" will these "sticker selling" dealers get..? Will it be enough for the demand..? Then you have the mark up dealers. Knowing price is no option on this new vehicle, they have the luxury of sitting on this car until someone buys, and based on what I'm reading, people will pay the higher cost. Or, one could always wait out the markup dealers for a year or so to purchase this new vehicle at sticker.

I'm "guessing" the price gouging will be worse than that of the 2SS.

This is all pure speculation on my part, and I have been wrong before.

M

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by Mark Myles

Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies..

Based on what I'm reading, this will be interesting to follow.

My "guess" is that the ZL1 will come with a heafty price tag. Based on this, there will be less buyers. We have already determined there are several members willing to pay $50+ for this vehicle.

Now come the dealerships. I'm "guessing", because I haven't seen a dealer step up and post this, but lets assume there will be a hand full of dealers that will sell the ZL1 at sticker price. The question that begs an answer is.."how much allotment" will these "sticker selling" dealers get..? Will it be enough for the demand..? Then you have the mark up dealers. Knowing price is no option on this new vehicle, they have the luxury of sitting on this car until someone buys, and based on what I'm reading, people will pay the higher cost. Or, one could always wait out the markup dealers for a year or so to purchase this new vehicle at sticker.

I'm "guessing" the price gouging will be worse than that of the 2SS.

This is all pure speculation on my part, and I have been wrong before.

M

I think your speculation will be backed up by fact once the cars start hitting the dealer showrooms.

And I laugh at the people who think by their refusing to pay an ADM a dealer is going to "just have to keep looking at the car on the showroom floor". Just because one person refuses to pay the markup does not mean the guy/gal that he/she passes as they are walking out the door will not.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

And I laugh at the people who think by their refusing to pay an ADM a dealer is going to "just have to keep looking at the car on the showroom floor". Just because one person refuses to pay the markup does not mean the guy/gal that he/she passes as they are walking out the door will not.

I laugh at the people who are so ill-willed that go and pay it. No money outta my pocket, I can wait a little longer to avoid paying a fake charge. The whole picture is wrong...and complacency doesn't make it any better....

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I laugh at the people who are so ill-willed that go and pay it. No money outta my pocket, I can wait a little longer to avoid paying a fake charge. The whole picture is wrong...and complacency doesn't make it any better....

I agree..which is why with both my 2007 and my 2010, I simply watched while others rushed to be "first" and waited until I could get one without the upcharge.

[derklug]

If there are no limits on production, just wait 6 months and buy one for sticker. Profit isn't a bad thing, it is what makes the country run. If you want to see a lack of profit motivation, see how quickly the local Department of Motor Vehicles runs.