Z/28 might not be much faster than SS

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Mankind

Why worry about the LSA? GM needs to get off their butt and get us a DOHC V8. At that point the performance numbers can be off the chart. Ford is getting comparable power plants with smaller engines because of this. I would gladly exchange a pushrod 6.2L for a smaller 5.7L, or a 5.0 like original Z28, DOHC because you can get more power. Design one, market it in the Z28, and see if ford can keep up. They went back to the drawing board for their 5.0 and only pumped a rated 412, prolly more but they are being sneaky.

[Mankind]

Haven't seen a dyno graph to see what the start torque is but 390 out of 5.0L vs 424 from a 6.2L isn't very shabby. If they did have to do after market type mods from the factory then i will agree with you on the pushrod design. Gm made enourmous strides in pushrod engines but to keep going up in bore and stroke doesn't make sense to me if you can do it with a smaller ci engine. Yes i know they weigh more, but if GM can do such great things with the LLT DOHC then why not on the V8?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Mankind

Haven't seen a dyno graph to see what the start torque is but 390 out of 5.0L vs 424 from a 6.2L isn't very shabby. If they did have to do after market type mods from the factory then i will agree with you on the pushrod design. Gm made enourmous strides in pushrod engines but to keep going up in bore and stroke doesn't make sense to me if you can do it with a smaller ci engine. Yes i know they weigh more, but if GM can do such great things with the LLT DOHC then why not on the V8?

Because it doesn't need to be done. Allow me, if you will, to give some perspective on the matter:

Ford's new engine has a "CAI" (iirc), and shorty headers, features variable valve timing, DOHC, and heavily revised heads. Yet it makes less torque, but is revved higher than the LS3, giving it roughly equivilant power.

The LLT features direct injection, on top of an equally-high redline, giving it that same 'low' torque/high hp character.

The LS3 has no Variable Valve Timing, single cam-in-block, cast exhaust manifolds, a lower redline, and an aging block design. Yet it still produces more torque and more power across a broad range than pretty much every engine in its class.

The Gen V V8 engines are set to utilize VVT, DI, and they'll ALL be aluminum blocks, among other technologies. One of which they're referring to as an "all-new advanced combustion system design". They'll likely be smaller in displacement, with higher fuel economy, yet will not suffer a significant (if any) drop in power. On top of all that, they've designed it to meet anticipated emissions standards throughout the next decade...not just current ones.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Mankind

Haven't seen a dyno graph to see what the start torque is but 390 out of 5.0L vs 424 from a 6.2L isn't very shabby. If they did have to do after market type mods from the factory then i will agree with you on the pushrod design. Gm made enourmous strides in pushrod engines but to keep going up in bore and stroke doesn't make sense to me if you can do it with a smaller ci engine. Yes i know they weigh more, but if GM can do such great things with the LLT DOHC then why not on the V8?

6.2 is here to stay, but combined with lowend torque and gearing OHV makes great fuel economy. The gen V are right around the corner, and will be even more powerful than the gen IV and more fuel efficient aswell. BTW you are mistaken, you are confusing displacement with the physical size of an engine, Fords 5.0 is bigger and heavier than the 6.2 ls3. A 5.3 OHV V8 is the exact same size as the 7.0 LS7 ohv V8 since it is the same block. Also let me ask you this (theorecticaly speaking)

Which would you rather have:
BMWs 4.0 V8
414hp, 310lbs
Cost $20k (estimate)
14mpg city, 20mpg highway

or
Camaro LS3
Cost $6.5k
430hp, 424lbs
16mpg city, 24Mpg highway

You see my point, horsepower per liter is meaningless and does not transfer to the bottomline to the consumer in any way shape or form in the real world. Where it counts i.e. Weight, cost, compact in size, hp, torque, fuel economy, and responding to mods. OHV>DOHC.

[rawj7]

I cant wait to read more about the $890 Mil GM just droped on their GEN V engines
Better yet I cant wait to hear about one going into a car

[n!ght r!der]

OP don't be a downer. Camaro SS is a beast.. but Cts-V is a monster. and the z/28 will be a "beastly monster" so it will be faster than both and the Cts-V and Camrao SS aren't as close as you think..

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

N look for the first to arrive....in a VERY big way.

Hmmmm..... What are you thinking may happen?

[nfamous209]

Originally Posted by truth411

6.2 is here to stay, but combined with lowend torque and gearing OHV makes great fuel economy. The gen V are right around the corner, and will be even more powerful than the gen IV and more fuel efficient aswell. BTW you are mistaken, you are confusing displacement with the physical size of an engine, Fords 5.0 is bigger and heavier than the 6.2 ls3. A 5.3 OHV V8 is the exact same size as the 7.0 LS7 ohv V8 since it is the same block. Also let me ask you this (theorecticaly speaking)

Which would you rather have:
BMWs 4.0 V8
414hp, 310lbs
Cost $20k (estimate)
14mpg city, 20mpg highway

or
Camaro LS3
Cost $6.5k
430hp, 424lbs
16mpg city, 24Mpg highway

You see my point, horsepower per liter is meaningless and does not transfer to the bottomline to the consumer in any way shape or form in the real world. Where it counts i.e. Weight, cost, compact in size, hp, torque, fuel economy, and responding to mods. OHV>DOHC.

the m3's e90 4.0L V8 weighs more than the LS3, it weighs like 450.

[LostInMoscow]

Z28 with 556 HP = 1 big freak'n smile after another! How fast do you want to drive? Come on! When I turned 16, they introduced the 1982 Z28 with 170 HP. Never did I dream that the camaro lineup would include a 312 HP V6 (OMG), a 426 HP V8 SS model and a 556 HP Z28. But yet, here we are! These are the good old days! Enjoy them while they last!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by nfamous209

the m3's e90 4.0L V8 weighs more than the LS3, it weighs like 450.

I was thinking the same thing at first, but I believe he meant lb-ft of torque not lbs of engine weight.

[SIXJAK]

Originally Posted by LostInMoscow

Z28 with 556 HP = 1 big freak'n smile after another! How fast do you want to drive? Come on! When I turned 16, they introduced the 1982 Z28 with 170 HP. Never did I dream that the camaro lineup would include a 312 HP V6 (OMG), a 426 HP V8 SS model and a 556 HP Z28. But yet, here we are! These are the good old days! Enjoy them while they last!

Good point. I love my V6 and for most applications, it's plenty. But as the video above illustrates, that 556 HP motor is reeediculous and I'm a fan.

[SummitWhiteLS]

Originally Posted by 309grovest

If and when GM builds the Z/28 I do not think it would be much faster than the SS ...

Originally Posted by ArkySS

... Motor Trend got a 12.3 in the 1/4. Half a second is huge and the amount of power to get that .5 second is significant. ... That being said you can spend 10 grand and get the same performance for less money but you do not have the warranty.

Arky is dead on 309:

• a 1/2 second in drag racing is HUGE
• you can't compare a NON warrantied car to a FULL warrantied car

That being said, the final thing that will determine the Z's worth is how much GM charges for it. A few extra thousand for 1/2 a sec reduction in the quarter mile and improved suspension is ok. Anything more than that would = FAIL on GM's part.

In my opinion, 32k for a base Camaro SS or Stang 5.0 is already pushing the value envelope ...

[ArkySS]

I guess that is better than just plain dead

[radz28]

Originally Posted by n!ght r!der

OP don't be a downer. Camaro SS is a beast.. but Cts-V is a monster. and the z/28 will be a "beastly monster" so it will be faster than both and the Cts-V and Camrao SS aren't as close as you think..

That was cool! I love hearing that little 1900 sing!!! GRR.

Originally Posted by LostInMoscow

Z28 with 556 HP = 1 big freak'n smile after another! How fast do you want to drive? Come on! When I turned 16, they introduced the 1982 Z28 with 170 HP. Never did I dream that the camaro lineup would include a 312 HP V6 (OMG), a 426 HP V8 SS model and a 556 HP Z28. But yet, here we are! These are the good old days! Enjoy them while they last!

There's nothing quite like the feeling of having your head ripped off your neck when you put you foot to the wood Enjoy!

Originally Posted by SummitWhiteLS

Arky is dead on 309:

• a 1/2 second in drag racing is HUGE
• you can't compare a NON warrantied car to a FULL warrantied car

That being said, the final thing that will determine the Z's worth is how much GM charges for it. A few extra thousand for 1/2 a sec reduction in the quarter mile and improved suspension is ok. Anything more than that would = FAIL on GM's part.

In my opinion, 32k for a base Camaro SS or Stang 5.0 is already pushing the value envelope ...

I agree. Seeing a half second on paper is not like seeing a half second on the quarter mile, or any other track for that matter.

These aren't the same cars as our 4th Gen was. It pains me to think of how I'd go about paying for this car, but I feel like it's a lot higher quality than my mid-$20K Z28 was. I don't know if an equivalent-equipped SS is worth the +$10K, but I know that I want it, LOL. I know I like the feel of the car way more than I remember of my '02. Relative to the other cars in this market, I believe they are good values; I guess I just need more $$$ I just hope they give us something that's at least as fast as the Cobra, and runs circles around it on the road course. I want to see GM show that IRS IS superior to their SRA. I'd actually like them to show that on SS, too