How Much can it handle?

[Grape Ape]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

1 Horsepower...

In all seriousness, I'm shooting for naturally aspirated 380 flywheel horses for under 2500 on my 3.6 DI - at least, the one I will be getting - and have a solid plan for getting there. 400 wouldn't take much more, but I don't want to sacrifice the fuel economy to get there.
- Xanthos

P.S. - In case you're interested, I'm going with a custom spectre modular air intake, ported throttle body for venturi effect, semi-full exhaust (shorty headers once somebody makes them, high flow cats, mufflers), higher ratio rocker arms, and custom tune. I'm reasonably confident this will get me to at least 380 flywheel horses, if not more, seeing how a cold air intake and cat-back with no tune netted 340 flywheel horses on the CTS with this engine. IF somebody makes a set of mild cams for the right price, and they don't seriously effect fuel economy, I might hook myself up with a set as well to hit that 400 flywheel horsepower mark. I might also advance the ignition timing a few (2-3) degrees and see where that gets me.

P.P.S - As far as DI and boost - in some ways it will help, in others it won't. You still have to worry about blowing gaskets and whatnot from the sheer pressure, but the DI has a cooling effect on the air/fuel mixture - not to mention that the droplets are smaller so will provide a more even mixture - that will burn more evenly with less chance of knock. Its like having an inherent intercooler. At least, on paper. We won't know for sure till somebody straps a turbo/super up to one.

Does the LLT have rocker arms? I thought that the cams acted directly on the valves like most (all?) DOHC engines.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Grape Ape

Does the LLT have rocker arms? I thought that the cams acted directly on the valves like most (all?) DOHC engines.

The cams push down on rocker arms which pivot, and push down the valves. It looks similar to an OHV engine's setup, except the rockers are ancored at one end, touch the valve on the other end, and get pushed by the cam in the middle. I don't think any OHC engines act directly on the valve stems...I could be totally wrong, though.

[Flighttester]

Originally Posted by TJ91

Hey guys, ive been hearing that Direct Injection makes tuning more difficult, and that the high compression ratio makes FI a little dangerous, how much do you think you can gain without going FI on the 3.6 DI, besides the cold air intake and exhausts?

The only reason direct injection might make tuning more difficult would be because it just might already be wound as tight as practical. Other than that, direct injection has no negative effects except that it is costly to offer. The fact that the engine apparently runs well on regular fuel tells me that Forced induction (turbocharging or supercharging) is well within the limits of the stock engine if Premium fuel is used and room for such hardware is available in the engine compartment. If it is, I wouldn't be too amazed if a blown Northstar couldn't make more HP and torque than a pushrod Chevy V-8.

I wouldn't want it, even if it becomes available but, I would never dis direct injection.

It is certainly the state-of-the art and probably the future for all cars, except perhaps the most price sensative models.

[Flighttester]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The cams push down on rocker arms which pivot, and push down the valves. It looks similar to an OHV engine's setup, except the rockers are ancored at one end, touch the valve on the other end, and get pushed by the cam in the middle. I don't think any OHC engines act directly on the valve stems...I could be totally wrong, though.

Indeed, you are wrong.

My '00 DOHC Mazda Miata has solid, direct acting bucket cam followers that are mounted directly above the valve and the cam lobe is directly above that. The valve lash is set by measuring the clearance and replacing removeable shims till the lash is within limits.

Many high-reving engines are made like that and many european race engines incorporate that design since it is about as low-mass as it is possible to get. It does make setting the lash more difficult but it is also possible to have hydraulic (self adjusting) cam followers with that design. Early Miata's did just that. The mechanical type was better and actually more reliable long-term though.

But, because of the difficulty setting lash, many OHC engines do use rocker arms, just for the ease of setting lash. I don't like it but it does make for more simple maintenance, even if it does increase the mass of the reciprocating parts.

I wouldn't even want the push rod V-8, even if it was cheaper, just because the V-6 has a better induction system and a much better valve train. You really can beat cubic inches. It just takes technology.

[CamaroSpike23]

wow....

some of the arguments posted make me want to

[TheClassicCarKid]

Originally Posted by Flighttester

Indeed, you are wrong.

My '00 DOHC Mazda Miata has solid, direct acting bucket cam followers that are mounted directly above the valve and the cam lobe is directly above that. The valve lash is set by measuring the clearance and replacing removeable shims till the lash is within limits.

Many high-reving engines are made like that and many european race engines incorporate that design since it is about as low-mass as it is possible to get. It does make setting the lash more difficult but it is also possible to have hydraulic (self adjusting) cam followers with that design. Early Miata's did just that. The mechanical type was better and actually more reliable long-term though.

But, because of the difficulty setting lash, many OHC engines do use rocker arms, just for the ease of setting lash. I don't like it but it does make for more simple maintenance, even if it does increase the mass of the reciprocating parts.

I wouldn't even want the push rod V-8, even if it was cheaper, just because the V-6 has a better induction system and a much better valve train. You really can beat cubic inches. It just takes technology.

6.2>3.6
The bigger V8 will always have more potential

[Mr Twisty]

Never under-estimate a man with a 6cyl and something to prove
(Deep pockets help too)
This thread reminds me of when the LS1 first came out, it was so new no one knew what to do with it. I followed the musings of a man that thought he could always improve just about anything, and he usually did. His name was John Lingenfelter, RIP dude.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was a wicked fast 4-banger that started his downhill slide, among other unfortunate circumstances.

Unrelated video, but don't discount the 6, cuz it might just bite ya in the buttocks.

[Grape Ape]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The cams push down on rocker arms which pivot, and push down the valves. It looks similar to an OHV engine's setup, except the rockers are ancored at one end, touch the valve on the other end, and get pushed by the cam in the middle. I don't think any OHC engines act directly on the valve stems...I could be totally wrong, though.

I'd always heard it called a finger lifter. Is anyone curently offering a higher ratio part? It seems to me that you'd need some sort of adapter to move the pivot. And between the high compression ratio and the VVT, it doesn't seem like you could add too much lift before the valves start interfacing with the pistons.

I am also curious about the porting you want to do to the TB. The only venturi effect I know of is the one that makes carbs work, but I can't figure out how it could help the LLT make more power.

I'm asking because I'm trying to decide which engine to get.

[BryGo]

"omg can it accept noobian hyperdrive motovators??"... etc. etc.. overkill.[/QUOTE]



Will noobian overdrive motovators make my Camaro go faster?

That was funny. +1 to you! As funny as "transduction modificator port."

Heres one: The Eludium Pew Thirty Six Explosive Space Modulator----Marvin the Martian

[Xanthos]

The venturi effect is used in carburetors, yes, but its a general term used to describe the increase in velocity that a fluid (such as air) experiences when passing through a tube that is decreasing in area. Basically I would leave the area by the throttle blades the same width, and then port it out till I get to the outer edge. This would cause a slight increase in air velocity, which will help keep the engine from starving in the upper RPMs. Won't make a big difference in the total air flow, but it should help noticably reduce pumping loses, in the way that a short ram intake reduces pumping loses in order to make power.
- Xanthos

[SS4EVER]

Originally Posted by Flighttester

I wouldn't even want the push rod V-8, even if it was cheaper, just because the V-6 has a better induction system and a much better valve train. You really can beat cubic inches. It just takes technology.

Sorry but a better induction system and a "much better valvetrain" doesn't = more potential.

A V8 will always have more potential than a V6.

For performance the V8 will be better than the V6. Now there's some exceptions like the Supra, which back in it's day the tt 2JZ, was taking on the C4 ZR1.

But sorry guys. If you buy the V6 Camaro, nothing against it but if you're buying it with any bit of performance in mind (exception being light mods for sound or a little better performance over stock) let me tell you right now you're better of spending the extra few k for the SS.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by SS4EVER

But sorry guys. If you buy the V6 Camaro, nothing against it but if you're buying it with any bit of performance in mind (exception being light mods for sound or a little better performance over stock) let me tell you right now you're better of spending the extra few k for the SS.

You don't think the credentials of the V6 don't qualify it as having a "bit of performance"?

imo, there's performance (V6 Camaro and it's equals), and then there's straight-up crazy-a$$ performance (SS and it's cohorts). Different levels, but I'd still consider them all performance.

[Mindz]

Originally Posted by Flighttester

I wouldn't even want the push rod V-8, even if it was cheaper, just because the V-6 has a better induction system and a much better valve train. You really can beat cubic inches. It just takes technology.

And if you put that same technology and put it on the bigger displacement engine...?

Originally Posted by SS4EVER

But sorry guys. If you buy the V6 Camaro, nothing against it but if you're buying it with any bit of performance in mind (exception being light mods for sound or a little better performance over stock) let me tell you right now you're better of spending the extra few k for the SS.

The v6 with minor mods will be giving the Mustang GT's a run for their money with the 315 hp that the GT is putting out. Not everyone can afford an SS and to trick it out. I'm sure that with the same money I'll be paying for my SS, I could have a more-powerful-better-performing-warranty-voided-v6.

V8 gives more potential but it's a high price to start out. If you had 38 grand and could never put another dime towards it aside from scheduled maintenance/tires/etc. a modded v6 would probably be better than a 2SS/RS with a bolt on or two...

[Xanthos]

All this talk of the V6 being worthless just makes me want to buy mine, put on my custom intake and full exhaust - then once cams come out for it and the box is cracked, we'll see what the performance is. I expect it to be as high, if not higher, than a stock SS.
- Xanthos

P.S. -

Originally Posted by Mindz

And if you put that same technology and put it on the bigger displacement engine...?



The v6 with minor mods will be giving the Mustang GT's a run for their money with the 315 hp that the GT is putting out. Not everyone can afford an SS and to trick it out. I'm sure that with the same money I'll be paying for my SS, I could have a more-powerful-better-performing-warranty-voided-v6.

V8 gives more potential but it's a high price to start out. If you had 38 grand and could never put another dime towards it aside from scheduled maintenance/tires/etc. a modded v6 would probably be better than a 2SS/RS with a bolt on or two...

Or an almost as good one, with the warranty still intact.