2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[goval]

Sexiness gives an extra 100hp, so big win for the ZL1 there.

[jimsss]

The Fat lady has sung!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by fordplay

According to the ford press release the weight is 3850 lbs.

30 pounds for a larger engine cooloing system, a batch of additional coolers, bigger brakes, stronger diff, stronger tranny... Maybe they made them all out of ultra light weight unobtainium

We'll all see when the car is built and Ford issues the final specifications in a year of less, but I'll stand by my guess it is about the same weight as a ZL1. If it does come in only 30 pounds heavier feel free to humiliate me and my crystal ball with this post.

[hognutz]

This is a wierd day of posts. On one had people say the ZL1 is now to expensive because of the 2012 gt500 can be had for less. Yet the ZL1 beats up on the that car performance wise.

then on the other hand it is a piece of crap because the 2013 is going to be faster yet base for ~6k more. ajustable suspention optional.

All I see is
2012 GT500 ~50k on ebay cheapes new one.
ZL1 54k
2013 GT500 supposed to base at 60k

now if they perform in that order the whole get what you pay for rings true. what is all the fuss about?

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It has...and the segment SHOULD be on notice...but Ford has nicely fluffed us all with their marketing, again, to take the wind out of our sails....GT500 better stop barking so loud and show some real bite...

I, for one, am not intimidated, upset, doubtful...whatever.

100 hp added to an already difficult car does not diminish the standard equipment and all-around prowess of the ZL1. Are we so quick to forget what this thing is packing??

And all for a price comparable to a similarly equipped (but woefully missing content) '12 GT500?

Despite this sound byte of "650 hp"...the ZL1 still has a LOT going for it that the GT500 does not. I caution the Camaro faithful not to lose sight of this.

Uh Uh.....sorry I don't buy that. To be fair, yes we will have to wait and see what the performance numbers are from well known publications such as MT, C&D, etc.

I wouldn't necessarily write off the '13 gt500 that quickly without acknowledging some of the zl1's issues (despite its excellent features). A lot of onlookers won't care or remember that the zl1 has mr shocks or tracked well at the 'ring, but a not so good comparison against a new gt500 in one of those magazines will not be forgotten in a short time. My criticism is that since gm decided to introduce this model as a "statement" against the gt500, that it should have expected that the ford would improve; And with anticipating that the rival gt500 would up the ante, so to speak, that chevy should have made provisions to counter against any rebuttal from ford.

Despite being a "loyal" chevy fan, I can't help but render my honest opinion and criticism of the zl1's current position. I say this because ultimately I want this car to win in both acceleration and handling, like chevy set out for the zl1 to accomplish.

[Jabs]

Not only is the GT500 going to be faster and lighter but were almost in 2012 you'd think the Camaro would at least have a navigation option!!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by lbls1

Uh Uh.....sorry I don't buy that. To be fair, yes we will have to wait and see what the performance numbers are from well known publications such as MT, C&D, etc.

I wouldn't necessarily write off the '13 gt500 that quickly without acknowledging some of the zl1's issues (despite its excellent features). A lot of onlookers won't care or remember that the zl1 has mr shocks or tracked well at the 'ring, but a not so good comparison against a new gt500 in one of those magazines will not be forgotten in a short time. My criticism is that since gm decided to introduce this model as a "statement" against the gt500, that it should have expected that the ford would improve; And with anticipating that the rival gt500 would up the ante, so to speak, that chevy should have made provisions to counter against any rebuttal from ford.

Despite being a "loyal" chevy fan, I can't help but render my honest opinion and criticism of the zl1's current position. I say this because ultimately I want this car to win in both acceleration and handling, like chevy set out for the zl1 to accomplish.

It's not in any position worthy of this sort of criticism. What's wrong with it? Really? Is it "loosing" to a competitor that doesn't exist, yet? Is text on paper THAT strong to undermine so much time worth of development and enthusiasm?

This is the way things are supposed to work. Product, counter-product..."and the consumer wins"...I'm fine with that...not upset AT ALL that the GT500 is being improved. Not at all.

But right now, in this thread and another...people are making a big deal over nothing...because that's what people tend to do; react without thinking much. And THAT'S what is frustrating me...especially considering some of these people call themselves Camaro enthusiasts, yet are SO quick to throw the car under the bus without knowing much of anything.

To be perfectly clear: I am NOT writing the '13 GT500 off...but if anybody thinks for a second that an extra 100 hp and some adjustable shocks (if you order them) are enough to put the current car "easily" over the top of a techno-marvel like the ZL1...you're crazy.

At best, it'll be an unrefined, murderous, terrifying car to drive when ordered in standard, unsupported configuration. Which most will, I'll bet, considering the extra options they've added will not be cheap in the least. When configured properly, I'm sure it'll be more expensive...and we all know how well the GT500 KR was.....

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by Jabs

Not only is the GT500 going to be faster and lighter but were almost in 2012 you'd think the Camaro would at least have a navigation option!!

If it would be anything like the POS that is in my Z06 your way better off on the aftermarket. The pioneer that I paid $580 for and put in my 300c is so much nicer than the $1800 unit in my Z06 it isn't even funny. I can also enter data wile I am moving and watch dvd's as opposed to the factory crap.

factory nav is my pet peave lately. The one went out in our Ram the other day. It sucked compared to pioneer or kenwood as well.

I sitll think pricing needs to be released before peopel go crazy. If it starts at 60k like one artical I saw and you buy nav and upgrade teh suspention you could be at 63-65k. should it not be faster for more money or am I stupid?

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by archtaan

Ford had to make a tough call with the GT500. The 5.0 GT Mustangs were beginning to encroach on GT500 territory and in some regards surpassed it. Now with such a huge HP gain and the supposed supporting mods (LC, tranny, driveshaft, electronic suspension, etc.) the GT will have even more room to grow. This in turn will prompt Chevy to make a leap and so on and so on.

The only domestic competitor to the topline Chevy will be the Viper but we are talking price points well beyond ZL1's and GT500's. The SRT8 cars are dead in the water with little to no chance of survival, so again it looks like Camaro's and Mustangs will rule the streets with a few killer ZR1's and Vipers thrown in the mix. Its gonna be an amazing ride for the next few years as the HP wars wage on till they get killed by some regulation or economic disaster. Cant wait to watch!

Couldnt have said it better. As soon as I got wind of this I said to myself Dodge needs to hang it up. Referring to the supercharger option rumor. No way in hell will a cast piston 392 be able to come close to this car. Especially on pump gas.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It's not in any position worthy of this sort of criticism. What's wrong with it? Really? Is it "loosing" to a competitor that doesn't exist, yet? Is text on paper THAT strong to undermine so much time worth of development and enthusiasm?

This is the way things are supposed to work. Product, counter-product..."and the consumer wins"...I'm fine with that...not upset AT ALL that the GT500 is being improved. Not at all.

But right now, in this thread and another...people are making a big deal over nothing...because that's what people tend to do; react without thinking much. And THAT'S what is frustrating me...especially considering some of these people call themselves Camaro enthusiasts, yet are SO quick to throw the car under the bus without knowing much of anything.

To be perfectly clear: I am NOT writing the '13 GT500 off...but if anybody thinks for a second that an extra 100 hp and some adjustable shocks (if you order them) are enough to put the current car "easily" over the top of a techno-marvel like the ZL1...you're crazy.

At best, it'll be an unrefined, murderous, terrifying car to drive when ordered in standard, unsupported configuration. Which most will, I'll bet, considering the extra options they've added will not be cheap in the least. When configured properly, I'm sure it'll be more expensive...and we all know how well the GT500 KR was.....

I wouldn't take it that harshly. I am more critical of the notion that chevy may feel that they need not to respond, especially if the ford proves to be more lethal in the performance department.

I may be a little more passionate about the chevy than some others, and that's because I will feel upset...(disappointed) if this effort gets outclassed by its main rival. I want the camaro to win this wager, and if it means that some may not like what others will say about the camaro then so be it. I want this car to be on top, no matter what.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Jabs

Not only is the GT500 going to be faster and lighter but were almost in 2012 you'd think the Camaro would at least have a navigation option!!

It has Navigation - and it's quite a good system if you ask me. If you mean touch-screen...please specify. And recognize is a low-demand feature. Development monies were better spent elsewhere.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by NicolasKL

You think they added THREE HUNDRED POUNDS worth of cooling and brakes to the GT500? Are you joking?

Yes I do think it will gain close to that amount of weight from the coolers and much more. 650 HP in a stock Mustang monocoque is not a good car. It is a too powerful engine in a too weak chassis and driveline. The people at SVT are very smart. If they don't know what I know from our development work on the road course version for Saleen, they can call me and for a small fee I'll give them a hand. When the 2013 is released it will be a very good car and much heavier than the current version.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by lbls1

I wouldn't take it that harshly. I am more critical of the notion that chevy may feel that they need not to respond, especially if the ford proves to be more lethal in the performance department.

I may be a little more passionate about the chevy than some others, and that's because I will feel upset...(disappointed) if this effort gets outclassed by its main rival. I want the camaro to win this wager, and if it means that some may not like what others will say about the camaro then so be it. I want this car to be on top, no matter what.

It will never win. I think maybe that's where parts of this conversation stem from...this Sheen-ish "winning" complex. What's there to win? The cycle will continue forever...until economics, physics, or an asteroid stops it. The only other gauge to fill this desire, imo, would be to take a good look at who's leading this dance...

Most buyers are going to be brand/nameplate loyalists, anyways - on both sides....what they're really doing with these cars is keeping the fan-base happy. Because if they don't, someone else will.

If the '13 GT500 is on the same level as the ZL1 (in my mind, doubtful)...I'm sure Chevy will do something to trump...but you've got to think, at this point, options might be limited...It would appear to me that they've maxed out their available reserves of technology and performance parts....unless they take a few months and "tinker" with the LSA to make that in-between engine we all spent some time speculating on.

But still....that's only if it's necessary...and I'm not altogether convinced it will be from what Ford is saying they've done.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It has Navigation...

We have had enough delirium for one day. I lit up a Monte Cristo Platimum and poured myself a Benedictine and Brandy Care to celebrate the release of ZL1 pricing and for my friends that are soon to take delivery. Care to join me for a virtual night cap?