Rumor: Camaro ZL1 base price: $47,000. Per C&D (Update: Debunked by fbodfather?)

[Mblock66]

Straight line will be close. I know for a fact there are guys with STOCK LS3 vettes that have run 11.9's. And I mean on the stock run flats.

The Current 2SS is a high 12 car. I don't see the ZL1 being much better if any then 11.9

Handling will probably still go to the vette with the same magnetic ride. And on the track the vette will take it out due to weight issues.

You can get a 3LT for just over 50k so it isn't just the 1LT that it steps on if the ZL! comes in at 53k. The two extra seats there is no arguing with.

You are also assuming no changes to the current vette. I am sure there will be significant changes to the base vette by the time the ZL1 hits the streets

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

You can get a 3LT for just over 50k so it isn't just the 1LT that it steps on if the ZL! comes in at 53k. The two extra seats there is no arguing with.

I wasn't assuming the ZL1 would crest 53k....there was a miscommunication there...I believe they'll be able to stay south of the magical "50,000" number...but we'll have to see.

One thing's for sure, this is going to be an absolutely AMAZING car.

[Mblock66]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I wasn't assuming the ZL1 would crest 53k....there was a miscommunication there...I believe they'll be able to stay south of the magical "50,000" number...but we'll have to see.

One thing's for sure, this is going to be an absolutely AMAZING car.

Oh someone above mentioned 50k plus 2-3k to option it out. So comparing a loaded ZL1 at 53 to a LS3 LT vette around the same was the comparison

[Rocky918]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Straight line will be close. I know for a fact there are guys with STOCK LS3 vettes that have run 11.9's. And I mean on the stock run flats.

The Current 2SS is a high 12 car. I don't see the ZL1 being much better if any then 11.9

umm the stock SS is a low 13 car .. average drivers wont get below a 13.5 ... and even if the zl1 is a 11.9 car... thats still REALLY REALLY fast ...stock with a supercharger means a simple pully swap and a new cam and you could be on your way into the high 10s soon enough

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Oh someone above mentioned 50k plus 2-3k to option it out. So comparing a loaded ZL1 at 53 to a LS3 LT vette around the same was the comparison

53k is a pure estimate ... and your still forgetting that the ZL-1 is a more MUSCLE based car while the vette is a SPORTS based car ... yes there is some overlap between them, but those are the general distinctions, another reason I do not deem it a fair comparison, they are in a different class ...

[Ron66Vette&10SS]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

I am sure there will be significant changes to the base vette by the time the ZL1 hits the streets

No, not really. The changes for the 2012 base Corvette are primarily cosmetic. The C6 is going to be around for AT LEAST another 2 years. GM says they will "probably" debute the C7 in 2013 as a 2014 model. Sounds to me like they might be leaving themselves an out just in case they need to "maybe" debute the C7 in 2014 as a 2015 model.

And by the way.....I'm one of those Corvette/Camaro cross-shoppers some that some people on this board seem convinced don't exist.

[Mblock66]

Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS

No, not really. The changes for the 2012 base Corvette are primarily cosmetic. The C6 is going to be around for AT LEAST another 2 years. GM says they will "probably" debute the C7 in 2013 as a 2014 model. Sounds to me like they might be leaving themselves an out just in case they need to "maybe" debute the C7 in 2014 as a 2015 model.

And by the way.....I'm one of those Corvette/Camaro cross-shoppers some that some people on this board seem convinced don't exist.

Ok well then changes to the vette within a year or so of ZL1 production. Things are never exact but you get my point. I would cross shop these two cars as well. I don't see how other posters don't see this. If you are dead set on a Camaro then sure you won't cross shop lol. But if you are in the market for a bad ass toy with lots of HP and such, you would absolutely cross shop the ZL1 with the base vette.

I guess when you post on a camaro forum everyone is already so camaro bias that they fail to see this. Which I understand. Guys who post on a forum are in the top percentile of REALLY caring about a car. The majority of rich car buyers out there don't care like this. They just go shopping and pay cash lol. So the ZL1 GT500 vette and Posrche would probably all be on the list to check out. I know if I had the money to blow I would certainly test them all.

[Rocky918]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Ok well then changes to the vette within a year or so of ZL1 production. Things are never exact but you get my point. I would cross shop these two cars as well. I don't see how other posters don't see this. If you are dead set on a Camaro then sure you won't cross shop lol. But if you are in the market for a bad ass toy with lots of HP and such, you would absolutely cross shop the ZL1 with the base vette.

I guess when you post on a camaro forum everyone is already so camaro bias that they fail to see this. Which I understand. Guys who post on a forum are in the top percentile of REALLY caring about a car. The majority of rich car buyers out there don't care like this. They just go shopping and pay cash lol. So the ZL1 GT500 vette and Posrche would probably all be on the list to check out. I know if I had the money to blow I would certainly test them all.

if you have the money obviously you would consider all your options... but if your set on having an american muscle car, then I dont see someone cross-shopping a muscle camaro to sports vet or porche

[truth411]

People are not cross shopping the vette with the CTS-V neither, the few that are, is in the extreme minority.


edit: I do believe that with the ZL1 the C7 has the freedom and should move up its base price point, say about 60k-65k.

[Mblock66]

They aren't cross shopping the CTS-V because it isn't a pure performance car. It has function. Seats 4 with extreme comfort, huge trunk, etc.

That is a luxury sedan. Muscle car and sports car do not have as defined a line as people think. The real reason the line was drawn was price point and number of seats not performance. All of the "muscle cars" were/are more affordable then the "sports" cars. And they all have a back seat where only some of the "sports" cars do.

I personally consider all of them sports cars, and most people do. Muscle cars are simply an enthusiest made up sub genre of performance "sports" cars. People also like to think that only American is a Muscle Car and everything else is an "import". However they are all performance cars.

My point is that if someone is in the market for a performance car and has $$$$ to blow they will not dip to the lower quality less performance "muscle car" range, BUT if that model produced a compelling flagship that tripped into the pricier performance car range it will be cross shopped.

Here is my best example. The younger or less well off crowd that wants a performance vehicle with no current brand/model bias will cross shop
Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, Charger, WRX/STI, EVO, 370Z, possibly Accord Coupe (and im sure you can throw a few others in there)

The folks with the means to push their purchase to the next level of performance car will generally cross shop
GT500, Vette, Caymen, Boxter, Elise (few know about these anyway), and the GT-R, Viper, Carrera at the high end

With the entry of a 50k+ ZL1 I can't see how you wouldn't add it to this second list. The GT500 is there...why wouldn't the ZL1.

I think you need to step back and look at this from another lense, one of the general public. Most aren't enthusiests like us, but they still have the money and want to play. They are the majority of your higher end performance car buyers, not us

Disclaimer - not trying to start an argument of any kind. This is all in fun and such just trying to be more realistic about the marketing of this model

[Rocky918]

if all you care about is raw power and straight line speed.... the ZL-1 will be faster than pretty much that entire list... it will likely run something like an 11.9 1/4 mile or maybe 12.0 ... which non of those cars can do.... so if thats all you care about (and looks obviously) then ur deal is sealed...

thats a main reason I want the ZL-1 ... since most of my 'speeding' and 'agressive' driving is on straight line highways, so for a 50k FACTORY car, you cant really beat the zl1

[Mblock66]

Originally Posted by Rocky918

if all you care about is raw power and straight line speed.... the ZL-1 will be faster than pretty much that entire list... it will likely run something like an 11.9 1/4 mile or maybe 12.0 ... which non of those cars can do.... so if thats all you care about (and looks obviously) then ur deal is sealed...

thats a main reason I want the ZL-1 ... since most of my 'speeding' and 'agressive' driving is on straight line highways, so for a 50k FACTORY car, you cant really beat the zl1

Well that is all up to the buyer so thats a hard one. I would think as you get into this proce range snob appeal plays a HUGE part in the majority of the purchases. They want a high performance car but want the prestige too. The ZL1 and the GT500 are the lowest on that. The Vette wins on Prestige over the camaro all day.

Also the GT500 and the Vette can run around 12 flat quarters. The caymen nor the boxter can't but they win in the snob factor.

[Rocky918]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Also the GT500 and the Vette can run around 12 flat quarters. The caymen nor the boxter can't but they win in the snob factor.

then again, the only vet to run 12 flat would be the grand sport or higher model, and the GS starts at just over 55k... the gt 500 starts at 48k and the zl1 will likely start around the same. Dunno about you but 7k is a lot of money and thats about a 15% increase in price... unless money isnt an issue... I would imagine this could play a key factor with some buyers as the ZL-1 will likely be a better performer than the corvette coupe (as I said before, the only performance advantage I still think the corvette coupe would have is handling, but coupe to zl1 will be VERY VERY close)

being it comes supercharged as well, a simple pully swap can drastically increase some HP for very cheap, so I still think the zl1 is a better buy than vet coupe

[Weezerj]

Originally Posted by Rocky918

so I still think the zl1 is a better buy than vet coupe

I agree, for no other reason that if you buy a coupe vette, you are getting the entry level, bottom feeding vette. Every vette you see on the road will be equal or better than yours. (not a slam on the entry level vette, cause its still a vette)

If you buy a ZL1, you have the top dog (factory only, you guys with huge amounts of $$ in your camaros tear it up, but I'm trying to compare apples to apples here)

[Mblock66]

Guys why are you thinking the vette is so much. I frequent their forum as well and last I checked you could get an LT3 vette for about 49k. You could get an entry vette for 45k. You dont pay MSRP for a vette you will probably pay 10k EXTRA for the ZL1 for a year or 2.

And the GS is not the only one to go into the 11's stock. There are a few guys on the one forum I read that have gotten 2008/9 stock LT1/LT2 6 speed vettes into the 11's stock

Here are just a few from the forum I go to. 11.7 @ 120 for a showroom stock 2008 6 speed is fast

Showroom Stock LS3 (2008 - ????)
11.71 @ 119.94 - AndrewZPSU - 08 M6 - (2590)
11.80 @ 118.82 - Gmrulz - 08 A6 Z51, NPP - (3482)
11.97 @ 116.98 - Proney - 08 M6 Z51, NPP - (4656)
12.05 @ 122.05 - AndrewZPSU - 10 A6 NPP - (5055)
12.10 @ 117.60 - Dingrao - 08 A6 - (3567)
12.10 @ 115.19 - Odin - 09 A6 2.73 npp - (4329)
12.12 @ 116.59 - Pettvette - 08 A6 - (4282)
12.15 @ 115.59 - Old Goat - 09 A6 2.73 - (3712)
12.16 @ 116.54 - Vinsane112 - 08 A6 2.73 - (2744)
12.18 @ 117.72 - Hardhattg - 08 M6 Z51 - (2690)