Do you think GM missed the ball my making the z/28 a track only car?

[Cpaint9041]

Yes I think they did but there's already a zl1 out there. Maybe they should've just named the zl1 a z28 when they first made them. Lol

[camarosss]

Originally Posted by Baldwin feeder

My only gripe is that the our current ZL1 and Z28 should switch nameplates to be better in line with history. If that is all I can complain about I'd say they are doing well!

+1

[Zfatuated]

Did GM miss the ball with this car? Well let's see-

I have a deposit down on a new Z/28 and I've never considered owning a GM car previously in my 52 year life. I do 10-20 track days per year, am a SCCA TT/PDX driving instructor, and have owned and tracked Porsche GT3's and GT2's for years.

The new Z/28 should be just as fast as the 997 generation of GT3's (so-called .1 and .2's) street tire vs street tire. It'll be slower than the GT3 to be released late this year, the 991, which is now basically a robot (a la Nissan GT-R) with rear wheel steering, PDK trans, an electronic diff, and non-track seats.

For those of us who seek a direct, visceral driving experience in a car that comes OE with most all the options that are critical for hard tracking (and none of the ones that aren't), the Z/28 is an amazing value even if it comes in at $70k. On top of that you have a company that warranties it for on-track use! That is insane.

The one, single downside of course is the weight. The girl is beautiful inside and out but she is very plump. I am a big fan of Trofeos and burned through many sets- they are super sticky and progressive as they let go and this car will eat those tire$ in three track days, four if you are a six or seven tenth's driver. The marketing implies it is stiffly sprung (coilovers baby!) so I suppose you could pop a set of R6's on and go harass some 'Vette guys most of whom are point and shoot drivers

Bottom line, I'm shocked, stunned that GM made this car. They did it right and the GM people talk to their enthusiasts...heck on this forum! I love that interaction, it's honest and courageous and other than maybe the Viper guys and the Corvette guys, no other manufacturer that I am aware of has the balls to do this.

GM hit the ball out of the park and into orbit with this car. I get it and appreciate it and am thrilled to put my money where my mouth is and buy one (w A/C delete).

From the track enthusiasts- Thanks GM! WOW

[LOWDOWN]

2014 Camaro Z/28 = THE ultimate (read: "halo") naturally-aspirated street-legal Camaro...EVER.

By its very nature, a "halo" anything isn't intended to be for everyone, nor is it intended to satisfy everyone...

If you fully appreciate the limits a production-based pedestrian automobile can be taken to by an OE, especially with regard to "handling" and on-track performance metrics, no one...I repeat NO ONE...has conceived and delivered a better 4-passenger version for near this kind of coin.

Could a 1LE-based LS7-engined Camaro have been less expensive and NEARLY as capable? Yes, maybe. But...and it's a valid one...THAT wasn't what was decided on, nor is it going to be available, this-Gen. For reason(s) GM-only is privy to.

"Close" only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. This one is clearly "above the rest"...so far...



Zfatuated, you will NOT be disappointed, I'm sure.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by racer50200

A few observations.

First, is the real issue here not that GM built this amazing car, but that they named it a "Z/28"?? If this car had been named the "2014 SuperSS" or "1LE Track Master" or anything else, I'm guessing we would not have the issues that we seem to have now??

Second, when GM built the COPO last year, was there the same amount of complaining about it not having a rocking stereo, heated seats, navigation, etc? Or was it OK because it was true to the COPO name and its design was consistent with its intended use (yes I know it is not street legal but trying to make a point here! Equipped consistent with its intended use.. )?

Third, I agree with others that hopefully in the future GM will offer some sort of 'Z28 option package' for the SS that will include many of the Z/28 features (not sure it will include the LS7) that will be more consistent with what many here were expecting from the Z/28. I sure loved my '96 SS Z28 with all of the factory/SLE upgrades!!

Finally, can we just go back to beating on the Mustangs instead of our beloved Camaros?? This is getting a little old.....!!

I think your COPO argument is a bit of a stretch bc that car is purely purpose built to blast down the 1/4, thats it no ifs ands or butts. its not street legal, doesnt have a VIN and doesnt need any of that stuff period. IIRC you also had to get on a list to be selected to purchase one, bc the only made XX amount per year. The COPO lets you do two things with it, race it, or show it off in your garage, there is no go out for cruise in it. it IS a race car.

Now I see how you tried to say the Z/28 falls into this too, bc its pretty much purely a track car, but it CAN be driven on the street. It won't be purchased only by people who will race it, but also by people who will drive the car on the streets bc they are financially well off enough to be able to afford a bad ass ride like the Z/28 as a toy. Thats why people are bitching about not being able to get a radio in it or other tech goodies( which I agree don't belong in the car, well I understand wanting a radio). The Z/28 is a track car that can be driven on the street, which is why some people want a radio and stuff in it.

All in all Im still very impressed with how GM made the Z.

[360ss]

Originally Posted by brt3

+1K

I understand folks might be frustrated because this new Camaro hotness is priced out of reach for some, but I second your thoughts. Chevy swung for the fences on this one. I am guessing a lot of the negative thinking about the Z/28 -- and I've never seen a car that has polarized people like this one has -- will evaporate once GM starts publishing track times. Once the magazines get their first examples, and Road & Track does a 3-way comparison test between the Z/28, the C63 AMG Black Series, and the 911 GT3.

This car is going to stun a lot of folks, and is going to offer huge performance per dollar on a road course. Can we recreate some of that on our own? Sure -- but I'm really looking forward to using the Z/28 as a starting point. It has everything I'm looking for in a track-day car. Wonder what Pfadt has in mind for the Z/28? The mind boggles...

Not sure what their goals would be but the current coils should work. I have a set laying around I may try for peak performance

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 87GNX

Sure it can be driven on the street, but with no amenities. I think they should have made this into a more streetable car. Drop in the ls7 and a few other goodies. The price could be in the 40's then.

What you suggest...no offense....is the half-assed approach. And chances of the car being in the 40s (even with just an LS7) is slim-to-none.

GM, and Camaro team has never done anything half-baked like that. I don't think they missed the ball at all. We cried that we wanted a track car....we cried that we wanted the ultimate Z/28 road racer, and that it shouldn't be as luxurious or comfy as a ZL1....

They delivered. They took every opportunity and spared no expense to make this the very best track car a Camaro can be, no excuses. Is it for everyone? Nope...is it going to be really expensive? Probably...but there is no doubt it my mind that this Z/28 lives up to the heritage and honor of that nameplate - and I'm thrilled to see the amount of time and effort they put into the car.

I'm super proud to call myself a Camaro enthusiast...and hold the Z/28 up as the car to beat for anyone claiming (cough, Mustang, cough) that they have a track car.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by KSCamaro

No, not really. It just makes it look like you don't want to hear any opinion other than your own.

69 Yenko and COPO had 427s.
2014 model year, make one of those your 45th anniversary track car.
Call it the Yenko S, the COPO S, call it Sally for all I care.

Keep the Z28 as an option package against the Boss.
The problem with that scenario ? It was blown out of the water when the 1LE came off the drawing board. Instead the Z was turned into something it never was. The 1LE with more HP, body and paint changes is what I would have liked to see for the Z/28.

It appears to me that you really don't want a true Z/28 if you simply want a 1LE with more horsepower, and superficial changes, such as some body and paint differences. The original Z/28 was built with a specific purpose, to qualify for SCCA Trans-Am racing. The new Z/28 is designed to be an outstanding performer on a road course, as the original Z/28 was in its day.

One should keep in mind that the nature of the mass automobile manufacturing business today is very different than it was in the 1960s when the original Z/28 was produced. In the 1960s most models were offered in a minimal base trim with most options available in an a la carte manner, with a few restrictions, so one could order a vehicle with just about any option combination that one desired. The first generation Z/28's included some options (such as the 302) and required two mandatory options (power front disc brakes, and a 4-speed transmission), and could not be ordered with AT, A/C, or as a convertible (one 1968 Z/28 convertible was produced for Pete Estes), but other than those limitations a first generation Z/28 could be ordered with any other standard Camaro RPO.

That's not the case today as with today's vehicles much content tends not to be available as individual a la carte options available on any trim level, and is in fact, only available with specific packages, and trim levels come with a host of standard equipment, much of which is only available on a given trim level. For example, the Magnetic Ride is only available in the ZL1, and carbon ceramic brakes are only available in the Z/28, etc.

Today's Z/28, as the original, requires a manual transmission, and can't be order as a convertible, but A/C is available, although it is not standard as it is most other cars these days.

I believe today's Z/28 will represent the heritage of the original quite well.

If you want a 1LE with more horsepower, instead of a Z/28, it's certainly possible to build one with all of the parts available for the Camaro in the after-market.

[KSCamaro]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I believe today's Z/28 will represent the heritage of the original quite well.

If you want a 1LE with more horsepower, instead of a Z/28, it's certainly possible to build one with all of the parts available for the Camaro in the after-market.

Oh I've had time to come around, took less than a week.
The Z/28 rules the roost. Have to smile at that.
My point was that it was in every previous generation, regardless of the original "intent", it was an option. It was what it was, and it is what it is.
And it's pretty impressive. It's a different animal now, and that's not optional.
To the person that said I wouldn't be happy with anything? Not true.
What I meant was, if this is the route they are going, stick to your guns.

I don't want to see a future Z28 or Z-28 or Z@28 or Z*28, you see where I'm going here?
I can hear it now, "You have a Z dash 28, not a Z slash 28!"
C'mon man. Next you're going to start up with V6 versus V8.
Let the 1LE be the new icon to fight the Boss.
The lineup is impressive the way it is. You know, I didn't expect the ZL1 either... & I still remember drooling over that. This Z is not for me, and that's ok.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by Zfatuated

Did GM miss the ball with this car? Well let's see-

I have a deposit down on a new Z/28 and I've never considered owning a GM car previously in my 52 year life. I do 10-20 track days per year, am a SCCA TT/PDX driving instructor, and have owned and tracked Porsche GT3's and GT2's for years.

The new Z/28 should be just as fast as the 997 generation of GT3's (so-called .1 and .2's) street tire vs street tire. It'll be slower than the GT3 to be released late this year, the 991, which is now basically a robot (a la Nissan GT-R) with rear wheel steering, PDK trans, an electronic diff, and non-track seats.

For those of us who seek a direct, visceral driving experience in a car that comes OE with most all the options that are critical for hard tracking (and none of the ones that aren't), the Z/28 is an amazing value even if it comes in at $70k. On top of that you have a company that warranties it for on-track use! That is insane.

The one, single downside of course is the weight. The girl is beautiful inside and out but she is very plump. I am a big fan of Trofeos and burned through many sets- they are super sticky and progressive as they let go and this car will eat those tire$ in three track days, four if you are a six or seven tenth's driver. The marketing implies it is stiffly sprung (coilovers baby!) so I suppose you could pop a set of R6's on and go harass some 'Vette guys most of whom are point and shoot drivers

Bottom line, I'm shocked, stunned that GM made this car. They did it right and the GM people talk to their enthusiasts...heck on this forum! I love that interaction, it's honest and courageous and other than maybe the Viper guys and the Corvette guys, no other manufacturer that I am aware of has the balls to do this.

GM hit the ball out of the park and into orbit with this car. I get it and appreciate it and am thrilled to put my money where my mouth is and buy one (w A/C delete).

From the track enthusiasts- Thanks GM! WOW

There you go Folks! a totally unbiased opinion.

Bravo and Welcome to C5 Hopefully you get to share a few stories in the coming year as you prepare to receive your Z and some adventures as you begin to track it.

[REVENGE]

Originally Posted by 1LEMayhem

I know the history also! Times have changed! A 100lbs will make all the difference in a 2 ton car? For $65,000 I should be able to buy a car with a radio if I want it.

You can always tell the ones who were spoiled rotten by their parents. They "grow up" to be whiny "adults" who think the world should revolve around them. Guess what? TheZ28 is what it is. Get it or don't get but stop your crying. GM is not here to coddle you like mommy.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

GMs intent with the 5th Gen refresh Z/28 is track orientated. That's the consumer they are trying to target by bringing back the hallowed name along with the heritage this time around. What's done is done unfortunately for those that are wanting a daily driven Z/28. It's not going to happen at this present time. Could GM release a Z28 in the future? Who knows but right now it's all about the Z/28. It is just not practical for everyone that's why at the moment GM has released a plethora of models to suit your needs. A 1LE or a ZL1 is your daily driven muscle with the creature comforts. I too am wanting a DD Z28 but It's just one of those things that's simply is not going to happen. Life is too short to pop a blood vessel over GMs decision. Enjoy what is currently being offered, we are in good hands.

The world is watching as the Z/28 is being released and maybe that was GMs intent, to simply shock the world for the next big thing whichever that may be. Something tells me the Z/28 isn't the only thing we'll see coming from GM in the Camaro line up that'll leave us speechless.

[Verbolten]

I heard that BMW will be ripping out 3 of there speakers in there M series cars.. So we go that going for us..

[MYDLIFECRISIS]

I don't think they missed the mark...they produced a track car. Hit the nail on the head for that application. I guess if you're wanting to buy a Z/28 for the street, you'll have to wait a bit longer. Maybe they'll come out with a street version.