Shno's House of Z

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

There ain't no wings on dem roundly round NASCARs.






There was that one guy though...........

And they tried wings about 5 to 10 years ago. Everyone hated them. Fans didn't like how they looked, and drivers complained that it made it harder for them to see the car behind them as well as seeing hand signals from the driver in front. So the wings were scrapped and they're back to spoilers.

[Bhobbs]

Arent wings generally more efficient than spoilers?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Arent wings generally more efficient than spoilers?

Not sure. They probably are, since they're more common in the racing world than spoilers are. I think I remember hearing another complaint about the Nascar wing was that it left the air too 'clean' behind the car, making drafting harder. Which would indicate that it probably created a lot less drag.

But spoilers have their advantages. They distribute the load a lot more than a wing does. In essence, with a spoiler the entire trunk area (as well as part of the rear window) become a zone of downforce. Less bracing* required this way, and it puts the centre of force closer to the middle of the car.

*Side note, one of the reasons why the wing was so high on the Superbird/Daytona was because it needed to be mounted to the frame of the car, instead of the trunk lid itself, and had to be high enough to let the trunk still open.

[pat_t]

http://www.bridgetogantry.com/video-...ound-the-ring/

For interest.

Chevy releasing that laptime makes it more likely that a 6th Gen Z/28 is on the way I think as although it's a couple of seconds quicker than the time they posted in the Gen5 Z/28 it's not much, and that Z/28 lap was done in damp conditions.

600bhp and 7mins 20 is my bet for a n/a Gen6 Z/28

[chimazo]

Originally Posted by pat_t

http://www.bridgetogantry.com/video-...ound-the-ring/

For interest.

Chevy releasing that laptime makes it more likely that a 6th Gen Z/28 is on the way I think as although it's a couple of seconds quicker than the time they posted in the Gen5 Z/28 it's not much, and that Z/28 lap was done in damp conditions.

600bhp and 7mins 20 is my bet for a n/a Gen6 Z/28

I think the new ZL1's time was like 8 SECONDS faster, and had a top speed on the course of something like 20mph faster (!!) than the 2014 Z/28. To me, this makes it seem to me that there would be absolutely no point (or more importantly, no business case to be made) to making a 6th gen Z/28. If anything, IMHO, GM would likely do something similar to a Z07-type of pkg for the ZL1, which would already put it at $70k without adding anything else.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by chimazo

I think the new ZL1's time was like 8 SECONDS faster, and had a top speed on the course of something like 20mph faster (!!) than the 2014 Z/28. To me, this makes it seem to me that there would be absolutely no point (or more importantly, no business case to be made) to making a 6th gen Z/28. If anything, IMHO, GM would likely do something similar to a Z07-type of pkg for the ZL1, which would already put it at $70k without adding anything else.

I don't follow ... people won't buy a new Z/28 because the new ZL1 is 8 seconds faster than the old Z/28?

What does that have to do with a new Z/28?

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I don't follow ... people won't buy a new Z/28 because the new ZL1 is 8 seconds faster than the old Z/28?

What does that have to do with a new Z/28?

I agree - they are two different animals. Why wouldn't GM want a new Z/28 that could be even quicker on the 'Ring/track than a ZL1 as a dedicated track car. Think about it - the previous Gen's Z/28 was even QUICKER than the ZL1 so just because you have a faster ZL1 now doesn't mean the performance stops there!

And, just because you have the ZL1 does NOT mean you don't have a market for an even quicker track car like the Z/28.

I hope, hope, HOPE they build the new Z/28.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I agree - they are two different animals. Why wouldn't GM want a new Z/28 that could be even quicker on the 'Ring/track than a ZL1 as a dedicated track car. Think about it - the previous Gen's Z/28 was even QUICKER than the ZL1 so just because you have a faster ZL1 now doesn't mean the performance stops there!

And, just because you have the ZL1 does NOT mean you don't have a market for an even quicker track car like the Z/28.

I hope, hope, HOPE they build the new Z/28.

Just maybe....not as many....and sell them out.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Just maybe....not as many....and sell them out.

I agree. Sell them out.

[Bhobbs]

I would build a small supply to send to dealers and then make them built to order.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I would build a small supply to send to dealers and then make them built to order.

Is that 4 cars, 40, 400, or 4000? The people that give the OK for tooling purchases need to know. As do the companies that supply the parts.

Building to order works quite well when things can be fabbed up by hand. Doesn't work so well when it has to integrate into a mass production system.

[chimazo]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I agree. Sell them out.

They couldn't sell the less than 2000 they made in '2014-'15, so why would this one be any different? Again, where is the business case that has to be made for anything before being put into production? Do the bean-counters at GM think they need another $75k Camaro? To compete with what?

The truth is, track times don't sell sh!t, HP does. Witness the ENDLESS hype the Hellcat has had, and the roughly 25,000 units sold in just 2yrs. That is a *huge* success, and from a 9yr old design with an ancient chassis platform.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by chimazo

They couldn't sell the less than 2000 they made in '2014-'15, so why would this one be any different? Again, where is the business case that has to be made for anything before being put into production? Do the bean-counters at GM think they need another $75k Camaro? To compete with what?

The truth is, track times don't sell sh!t, HP does. Witness the ENDLESS hype the Hellcat has had, and the roughly 25,000 units sold in just 2yrs. That is a *huge* success, and from a 9yr old design with an ancient chassis platform.

So sell less. There IS a market for a dedicated track car...but it's very small. The business case for such a car is entirely PR and bravado. "Look at what we can do".

[chimazo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

So sell less. There IS a market for a dedicated track car...but it's very small. The business case for such a car is entirely PR and bravado. "Look at what we can do".

I get that, but the new ZL1 already makes that statement, which is why a "Track Pkg" option makes more sense (to me, at least!). Again, just like they have on the new GS and Z06's.