01-30-2010, 06:24 PM | #29 | ||
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As much as I'd like GM to take this seriously, this is just a brainstorm. As many of you know, I start some random threads with pretty off-the-wall ideas. This sort of creativity could bring new life to GM. Regardless of any criticism, I will keep proposing this sort of idea because this is what brought some of us to GM. Compare this idea to the classic COPOs or the 1LE and tell me they're so different. Shakespeare posed an important question: what's in a name? To enthusiasts, the word Camaro is important, but would you sacrifice the word Camaro to have one of 1,999 annually built Chevrolet LS9-M6 (engine-transmission) configurations? What would you pay for it? I already know you want it. You've driven cars with these configurations. You've bought them in the aftermarket, and this is no replacement for the expertise of professional performance tuners. It is, however, an idea that might give us something that we don't have today: a factory super Camaro, covered by a GM warranty; a rarity; a collector's special edition if you're lucky enough to get your hands on one. Don't bother telling me GM won't do it. I already know the idea is crazy, but leave the decision-making to the same guys that allowed our Camaro to hit production. They seem to like crazy, good ideas.
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01-30-2010, 07:00 PM | #30 |
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Do it like the place making TA's buy 2000 new ones one bunch, mod n warranty the work yourself.
And have all 2000 pre titled, so they pass EPA, then only sell in places with no or little EPA checks. |
01-30-2010, 07:25 PM | #31 | |||
Drives: Callaway Corvette Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Out in the shop...
Posts: 839
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Just because one might not have emissions testing in their area, does not make a part or product emissions compliant - or legal. And for the shop doing the work, they would be the ones on the hook For those new to the game, please check out the following link about the Clean Air Act of 1990: http://www.epa.gov/air/caa I remember in 1990, thinking how the big crackdown was coming. Most shops still widely ignore the CAA of 1990. Check out the following: Quote:
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01-30-2010, 07:49 PM | #32 |
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Blur is saying have the blocks numbers matching though, why not just mod your own? We want an Ls-7 that would be numbers matching. And from GM.
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01-30-2010, 08:08 PM | #33 |
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Dealers use to be able to get unstamped engines.
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01-30-2010, 08:10 PM | #34 |
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01-30-2010, 08:19 PM | #35 |
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01-30-2010, 08:28 PM | #36 |
Drives: 68rs/69z28/2010 2SSRS-callaway Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: silver spring md.
Posts: 304
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Hey shank I like your hood.. Pretty nice huh chris
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01-30-2010, 08:32 PM | #37 | |
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Thanks. Jinx is a beast! |
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01-30-2010, 09:20 PM | #38 |
Drives: 2006 Mustang GT Convertible Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MO
Posts: 8
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Manufacturing passenger vehicles in 2010 is much different than manufacturing in 1967. There are a multitude of aspects that MUST be considered before any changes are made in modern automobiles. Throwing an LS9 or an LSX-based engine in a Camaro is NOT as simple as a bolt-in and retune. The weight of an iron block or supercharger will change the handling dynamics of the vehicle. So along with changing spring and anti-roll bar rates, then you have to change the way the traction control systems work. After you spend thousands of high-dollar engineer hours on that, then you have to ship pilots to the desert and the Yukon for validation testing. What if the cooling system for the LS3/L99 is inadequate for the new engine? Back to the drawing board.
Unlike 1967, customers in 2010 won't put up with a car that boils over in gridlock and handles like an overloaded Chevette. Customers also expect a 100,000 mile powetrain warranty and never having to use it. If you have a small boutique car company like Saleen or Callaway, GM will happily supply bodies-in-white or stripped down models through their specialty vehicles group for modification, but no factory installed LS9, LSX, or LSA and no factory warranty. |
01-30-2010, 09:22 PM | #39 |
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If they were to make it it's own model to get around the legalease. Wouldn't they still have to crash test it again as a seperate model? Also wouldn't that loophole only apply to Manufacturers and not Models? I would love the idea of picking your engine but Fbodfather explained why stuff like this just isn't possible any more when he was asked recently. Basically the more options you have the bigger a chance you have for mistakes and quality issues. So by reducing the # of options the product is better because a person only needs to do the same task over and over as opposed to doing it 6 or 7 different ways. The 4th gen had so many possible combinations that you could generate well over a million different combos with out a duplicate. Yenko originally installed engines at his shop but it cost to much because the cars had engines already. He was able to convince GM through the COPO system to install the engines at the factory which was much cheaper and an easier sell. Today with JIT I don't think it's feasable to do anymore. If people want a special car with a particular setup the just need to get it through SLP, Hennesy, Nicky Chicago, Whoever else. All are backed by a warranty and at least the ones I've listed will hold their value like the old cars did. As far as being #'s matching an SLP car is ordered through your dealer so I'd imagine it would qualify. It would be insane if you could dump a duramax into a Camaro and then add propane injection for an easy 1000 HP (it's very easy to do) but again it's just not possible. We can dream though.
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Mods: BBK Intake, BBK LT's and High Flow Cats, Corsa Cat-back exhaust, Hurst short throw shifter, SLP skip-shift eliminator. 7/1/09 Placed order for IOM/IO int/ SS/RS 6M 9/26/09 Took delivery! |
01-30-2010, 10:35 PM | #40 |
Drives: 2010 SIM SS/RS, 1968 RS convertible Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 744
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If GM can make a limited run, although expensive ZR-1 Corvette, and still make money on it, they could do the same on a different vehicle. But all sorts of interesting questions arise about the balance of performance/price points across their models lines.
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2010 SIM SS/RS see garage for mods
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01-30-2010, 10:42 PM | #41 |
Drives: 2012 ZL1 #1329 M6 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Posts: 1,040
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I would love to see GM pursue what you are proposing here, Blur. It would not be like these cars would be sitting on the lot. They be sold before they even hit any showroom floor. Look how well Ford does with the FR500CJ stock eliminator. They are pretty much sold before they even leave the factory. I would love to see GM build a stock eliminator Camaro with an LS7 powerplant. Both Ford and Dodge did it.
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2012 Camaro ZL1 #1329 M6 Summit White
Built by Mike @ Rapid Motorsports 784rwhp 757 rwtq on 93 Octane ET - 10.97 @ 128 Heads-Blower-Snout-TB ported & prepared by Jeremy Formato of FasterProms http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395950 Rapid Motorsports 396ci Build https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...1#post10321301 10.832 @ 130.99 |
01-30-2010, 11:17 PM | #42 |
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Guys, you're all bringing up valid points, but you've missed the biggest point of them all. This is just a suggestion. There are lots of kinks to work out, but wouldn't you want the option of a different powerplant? Everyone is complaining about the lack of Z28, but some of those same members enter this thread criticizing an idea that could provide the same options. It's as if you want a badge more than you want a fast car. If you want the badge so badly, here you go.
Now, a few of you have argued that this is impossible for a variety of reasons. There are simple solutions for most of these problems, so I will itemize them. Safety This car would have to be safe. In order to do that GM would do crash testing to verify that it met safety standards. That wasn't so hard. Let's move on. Emissions The technicality requires that this be a car different from the Camaro. In essence, GM must rebadge it as something else in order to minimize the cost of production. GM does own a variety of names known for performance that would suffice for such a product that would see substantially lower production than the Camaro. What was the name of that storied brand that GM killed with a history of performance vehicles? Make the car a special order with limited production available at select GM dealers. Production This section is negotiable. I just thought this was a good idea. Production would be limited to a low enough number that the EPA and other applicable agencies would not emissions test it. GM builds a car on the assembly line with all the other cars. GM does not install the engine or the transmission. GM ships the car, engine, and transmission to a dealer. The dealer installs the custom parts. Continue this story in the next section. Sales The dealer has just paid a bunch of labor in the process of putting together the car. Now, the dealer sells the car at a high enough price to pay for that and get a profit. Why would I suggest this? Dealers need an incentive to order the car. For this reason, these custom products would have to be worthy of markups. If we don't give dealers an incentive to order this, no one would have one, and that would suck. Matching Numbers There's been such a negative response to this idea that you can forget I mentioned it.
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