[camaro5]

I've been thinking it already has.

With C8 mid-engine Corvette coming soon, the Camaro will fill the hole left by the front-engine Corvette.

Camaro gets all the best engines now, and its Alpha chassis is actually better than C7.

2019 Camaro refresh should continue this trend.

Unfortunately, creating a mid-engined Corvette is bound to piss off a few people that still want a reasonably affordable, front-engined sports car from GM.
Luckily for those people, GM already makes such a sports car, it's called the Camaro.

In the past, GM has limited the Camaro's potential by telling the development team that they couldn't make it as good as the Corvette.
It seems like GM has ditched this old philosophy and has finally let the Camaro team go all out.

Believe it or not, the Camaro team and Corvette team don't always work together at GM. In fact, the two have a bit of a rivalry.
That's why the new Camaro ZL1 is actually a better car on track than the Corvette Z06.

Thanks to its lighter Alpha Platform, the new Camaro is so good, that the timing is perfect to have it take over where the Corvette left off.
It may not make Corvette fans happy, but the Camaro is now ready to accept the Vette's mantle.

For around $70,000, the Camaro ZL1 1LE is already a performance bargain.

The ZR1 will likely be the final model in the C7 generation, so we can start to see the front-engined Corvette get phased out.
This leaves open the possibility of the Camaro getting the ZR1's LT5 engine.

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/11/...otors-7742042/

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Times They Are A-Changin

[redcoats1976]

could be so.its already pricy enough...

[BlaqWhole]

The way I see it...

On one hand the Camaro SS fully loaded comes in cheaper than a base Vette although not by a whole hell of a lot. A ZL1 is cheaper than a fully loaded 3LT, GS, and base Z06. And the performance of the Vette is not enough to justify the pricing. The ZL1 is quite literally the best bang for the buck out of the entire line up of Camaros and Corvettes. It's getting harder and harder to justify buying one.

On the other hand, the Vette stands out from the Camaro. It is a more mature car. Guys who buy Vettes to me seem like they wanna distinguish themselves from the Camaro crowd. So I can't really see the Camaro taking the Vette's place because the Camaro doesn't have the appeal or draw the same customer base.

What I think they should do is get rid of all the damn trim levels, offer one trim with full options, and then allow the addition of the Z51 package as an option. Do the same for the Z06...no more 1LZ, 2LZ, yada yada. Just one fully optioned trim with options for spoilers, rims, hood, stuff like that. And then set the ZR1 apart from the other Vettes. If people wanna mix and match options then that can go to the Camaro (except for the ZL1) lineup.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZL1 is quite literally the best bang for the buck on the planet.

Fixed your typo.

[rjacobs]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The way I see it...

On one hand the Camaro SS fully loaded comes in cheaper than a base Vette although not by a whole hell of a lot. A ZL1 is cheaper than a fully loaded 3LT, GS, and base Z06. And the performance of the Vette is not enough to justify the pricing. The ZL1 is quite literally the best bang for the buck out of the entire line up of Camaros and Corvettes. It's getting harder and harder to justify buying one.

On the other hand, the Vette stands out from the Camaro. It is a more mature car. Guys who buy Vettes to me seem like they wanna distinguish themselves from the Camaro crowd. So I can't really see the Camaro taking the Vette's place because the Camaro doesn't have the appeal or draw the same customer base.

I just came from an 07 Z06 to my ZL1. I'm a vette guy. I was seriously shopping new vette's, the whole line, although really only seriously considering the Z06's. To get into a 1LT Z51 vette, even with all the deals going on right now is 55k+. You can get a nicely loaded up SS for under 40k. I dont know how the SS vs. a 1LT Z51 performance wise is, I didnt look into it that closely.

So enter the Z06 vs. ZL1... Performance numbers are very close and in a non professionals hands I would bet both cars perform even closer. With the current deals it was 61k for a ZL1(69k sticker) and the 1LZ Z06 7 speed, the best price I found was 69k(on an 80k sticker)... So 8k more real cash. And thats for a stripped down 1LZ base car(which is STILL a damn nice car, dont get me wrong). I couldnt find 8k in performance personally.

The ZL1 has just as nice or nicer interior than a 1LZ Vette. You have to step to a 2LZ car to get the suede interior. The A8 in the Vette is a step down from the A10 in the Camaro. Beyond that you have the weight difference of 500lbs, but the Camaro has a reportedly stiffer chassis. The overall gearing in the Z06 is a weak point at higher speeds, they really suffer in the 1/2 mile and 1 mile runway events and are way down on speed vs. similar HP cars. I dont know how the Camaro A10 is doing in this regard.

Most of the guys in my Corvette club urged me into the ZL1 and away from the Vette... and these are hard core vette guys. But quite a few have drifted into other things. These were all C6 vette guys that look at the C7 vette as being a down grade from their C6. All of them could afford pretty much whatever car they wanted.

[Mr. Wyndham]

It's an interesting prospect I can see happening.

They've certainly got a point re: performance figures.

Yet...Corvette people who cannot afford the price of entry for a mid-engined Vette may not be very happy with the forced choice. Corvette is, and has always been (regardless of performance capability) a status symbol for Americans. The Camaro will likely never achieve that same status, even though - on paper - it could...

[FNxR3DNECK]

Here's where I think this is wrong... Yes we are getting a mid-engine Vette soon, but I don't think the front engine Vette will end with the C-7s.

Yes the performance offered by a mid-engine setup will be a step forward from the classic front engine setup! BUT... with that comes higher costs!!! I expect the new mid-engine Vettes to come out with a base price of at least $100k, maybe even close to $150k depending on how crazy Chevy goes with it. So in my mind that right there would put the Vette out of reach for the vast majority of the current consumer base, as in the over 50+ with disposable income and the Retirees, because yes more and more younger people are buying Vettes but the majority of owners are still over 45-50.

So I think along with the mid-engine Vette we will also get a new C8 front engine model with a starting price in the $50-55k range to keep it affordable for the masses. That would give us the best of both worlds, and wouldn't hurt Chevy's bottom line.

Just my 2 cents, what do you guys think?

[brantley847]

As mentioned by Wyndham, it is a status symbol. It is the closest thing that many can get for some who initially aspire for AMG GTs, M5/6, 911s, or one of the overpriced Italian badges. Even though the 7th gen Corvette puts most of those in their place with 1/3 of the price tag.

I get the perception that the traditional old school style muscle car may be more appealing than a midengine, but I think its going to be the other way around. For at least the first few years, the mid engine sales will go through the roof. I also don't understand where everyone is expecting the new mid engine pricing to be that much higher. Sure, a 4-6k hike is expected, but the stingray would price itself out if they go much further than that. I suppose there could be two variants. A cheaper front engine and a more expensive mid engine, but I dont know why chevy would do that as production costs would seemingly negate simply selling a mid engine in the 60s.

[camaromike77]

Interesting Thread......... I went back and forth between a new Vette, and my 2SS Anniversary Convertible........ It was a hard choice / decision, but in the end I am glad I went with the Camaro.....

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

Here's where I think this is wrong... Yes we are getting a mid-engine Vette soon, but I don't think the front engine Vette will end with the C-7s.

Yes the performance offered by a mid-engine setup will be a step forward from the classic front engine setup! BUT... with that comes higher costs!!! I expect the new mid-engine Vettes to come out with a base price of at least $100k, maybe even close to $150k depending on how crazy Chevy goes with it. So in my mind that right there would put the Vette out of reach for the vast majority of the current consumer base, as in the over 50+ with disposable income and the Retirees, because yes more and more younger people are buying Vettes but the majority of owners are still over 45-50.

So I think along with the mid-engine Vette we will also get a new C8 front engine model with a starting price in the $50-55k range to keep it affordable for the masses. That would give us the best of both worlds, and wouldn't hurt Chevy's bottom line.

Just my 2 cents, what do you guys think?

That is a great theory. I just cannot imagine creating a frame/body that is built for a mid and now having to produce two variants instead of one equal frame. We arent talking about simply widening the rear panels like the Z06 has. That would seemingly push production and assembly costs higher.... but maybe thats why they extended the plant??

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by brantley847

That is a great theory. I just cannot imagine creating a frame/body that is built for a mid and now having to produce two variants instead of one equal frame. We arent talking about simply widening the rear panels like the Z06 has. That would seemingly push production and assembly costs higher.... but maybe thats why they extended the plant??

Very good point, it would definitely raise costs to produce two completely separate cars, but they wouldn't have to change too much of the plant that has been building C7s for the last 4 years to prep for the new traditional front-engine C8s and the new section that they just finished could very well be the assembly line area for the new mid-engine cars. Other parts of the plant could be shared for both models, like paint and QC ect. kinda like how some plants that build multiple different models cars/crossovers ect. have separate assembly lines that merge near the end of the line.

I think the extra cost of building two separate models would be vastly overshadowed by the loss of customers that couldn't afford the mid-engine Vette if that was the only offering.

[Glen e]

The majority of C7’s are currently selling to retired guys that have always wanted one.... they never even considered the Camaro....That was me, had one for 2 years and loved it. And in talking to one of the biggest dealers on the East Coast in New England, they agreed that that’s their market. The mid engine in my opinion is being made because a lot of people in GM have inferiority complex when it comes to the Ford GT and want to show that they can do it too. It’ll come in over 100K for sure. I don’t see the C7 going away either. Because it’s really a different market. Let’s see what develops.....BTW, C7 sales are in the dumper so far this year.....looks like they’re running out of retired guys, they are ALL OVER south Florida these days, I must see 4-5 daily, just running errands....

[keon718nyc]

I dont think the Camaro will ever take over for the corvette. If it wasnt for my situation with the whole backseat thing for my little one then i would of been in a Vette ATM. Ever since i drove a few of them i rented i wanted one bad but knew the Camaro had that LT1 and i can get close to the feel and ride i was looking for without breaking the bank or divorce LOL