Clutch vibration to clutch is broke

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by X25

.... In other words, the 'extra' hardware Z/28 has for preparedness is equally offset by higher demands, if not more.

Say again please, my English not that perfect you know. I didn't understand the higher demands part.

[CrystalRedTintcoat]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

Did you pump the clutch 40 times for the first fill, meaning 40x7-8 fills = 280-320 times to pump the clutch in order to achieve a 0% reading on the apparatus?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

2nd question would be, how many track sessions, and what length of them, would it take for water to begin contaminating the Dot 4 fluid in your separate clutch reservoir again?

(1)ThunderHill on March 13. Five mile track. Five sessions. Each lap was about 4:12 min:sec. Probably got five laps per session:


(2)Sonoma Race on April 22. Five sessions. Each lap was about 2:15. Probably 8-9 laps each.

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

I really do find all of this disconcerting, perhaps I'm over thinking it or being too paranoid.
I don't even want to go to my local track in the next few weeks anymore because of all of this.

I wouldn't be scared. FULLY purge the clutch fluid before AND afterwards. And check the water level carefully.
http://www.amazon.com/Brake-Fluid-Te.../dp/B005HVG4GQ

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by treplatano

I get that the clutch is a wear/tear unit, but what we are seeing is "alleged" design failure from factory. Sure 38K/40K is a bargain for all this power and fun, but the moment you gotta start fixing a "design" flaw, and only seeing 8K miles on the ODO - well that's just silly.

What you're also seeing is a small snippet of people who quite literally put the greatest possible amount of stress and wear on their cars.

Many more have never had a problem, including some in this thread. (Not saying that to discount those who have...). A "design flaw" is an applicable term only when a lot of the same problems are occurring across the board. Perfection is impossible - which mean some things, especially wear things...can and will need maintenance. This should be expected by the owner. Indestructable is a myth. Especially at $38,000.

I am...let's say "familiar"...with the abuse tests this car's transmission & powertrain went through before production. And there's just no way I buy that the clutch/transmission is weak, or not up to the task of track duty (generally speaking, because perfection is impossible...).

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat

Yes.


(1)ThunderHill on March 13. Five mile track. Five sessions. Each lap was about 4:12 min:sec. Probably got five laps per session:


(2)Sonoma Race on April 22. Five sessions. Each lap was about 2:15. Probably 8-9 laps each.



I wouldn't be scared. FULLY purge the clutch fluid before AND afterwards. And check the water level carefully.
http://www.amazon.com/Brake-Fluid-Te.../dp/B005HVG4GQ

Thoroughly enjoyed the first vid in particular 👍🏻

That Amazon link was gold, thanks!

[White_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

Whilst I agree with everything you wrote above, all things being fair that is, the very first sentence did grab my attention, hence the re-quote and now the question.

I'm sure it's been asked before, but I don't seem to recall a solid answer that left a permenant mark in my memory, so my apologies if I must ask again. What difference is there with the Z28's "track ready" clutch system and the SS's? Basically, are there OEM pars from the Z28 parts bin that a 1LE owner can upgrade the clutch system to, and of course the second part to the question is, are they are bolt-on?

Originally Posted by Fraxum

The Camaro does deserve a better clutch and supporting hydraulics, Z/28 included. The Z/28 LS7 clutch is only marginally better. I'm sure it would bolt in. But why bother? The aftermarket clutches are a better choice to put in once the car is apart. I know this is true for drag racing, but for track days? The LS7 clutch might do. I will say after searching the Z/28 forum, clutch problem threads are less frequent than here.

The Tick clutch line improves the flow and the bleeder makes bleeding the clutch system much easier, still a good move either way.

I talked with one of the techs at SNL performance about the clutch in my car today and I confirmed that the Camaro SS including the 1LE already uses the LS7 clutch, same as the Z28.

The problem is that the LS7 clutch is designed for a 3300lb car with 500 hp. He also stated that the LS7 clutch still marginal even in the Corvette. It really just isn't capable of surviving lap after lap. I'm sure if you've frequented the Corvette sites they are having failures as well when placed in the same situation we are putting our cars. Its sad that its such an expensive part and PITA to upgrade.

Best thing you can do to avoid issues is to upgrade the release bearing support with the billet one and sh!t can the plastic one that melts and destroys your entire system.

[WHAMMO]

Most of the problem isnt the clutch by itself, its more the slave/master and lines. Which arent too expensive to fix.

Can we really expect a 40K$ to be a race car? absolutly NOT! Track capable, yes. We are lucky those 1LE handle like that and now that its in the big league, we want the durability without the price tag too. Anything will break when racing. Its still a street car guys.

Yess go buy a BRZ or a Miata that might break less parts... because they have no power LOLL!! They ride on cheap slim wheels/tires. And performance mods are not going to give you much HP too!!

[Drm2Reality]

I test drove a used white 1LE in poway last week. It had a serious vibration in the peddle and was beat to shit. Whoever traded that one in made off good LOL.

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by WHAMMO

Most of the problem isnt the clutch by itself, its more the slave/master and lines. Which arent too expensive to fix.

Can we really expect a $70Kto be a race car? absolutly NOT! Track capable, yes. We are lucky these Z28handle like that and now that its in the big league, we want the durability without the price tag too. Anything will break when racing. Its still a street car guys.

Yess go buy a BRZ or a Miata that might break less parts... because they have no power LOLL!! They ride on cheap slim wheels/tires. And performance mods are not going to give you much HP too!!

Ok, for the fun of it, I'd like to fast forward to a hypothetical future, so take no offence to a point in trying to make. Notice the black highlighted words I replaced in your quote. If the Z28 truly uses the same master and lines like a few have suggested already, then this applies to the Z28 as well as time may show..

Tell me now, let's pretend we were Z28'ers experiencing the same problems as the 1LE'ers in a Z28 subforum. Would you still write what I re-quoted?

[Fraxum]

Interesting side note here:

http://www.streetslayer.com/Products.html

Look down the page for the discussion. No mention of the hydraulics here. I will say that with the better clutches all the problems do go away. Is this really all of it?

I am with everyone else in wishing for a better standard clutch. Is there any car with a standard clutch that can be beat on?

In my case though, I can't expect a standard clutch to live in my car.

PDKs are coming. Will we miss the clutch pedal? What will be the solution once we start breaking those things?

[WHAMMO]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

Ok, for the fun of it, I'd like to fast forward to a hypothetical future, so take no offence to a point in trying to make. Notice the black highlighted words I replaced in your quote. If the Z28 truly uses the same master and lines like a few have suggested already, then this applies to the Z28 as well as time may show..

Tell me now, let's pretend we were Z28'ers experiencing the same problems as the 1LE'ers in a Z28 subforum. Would you still write what I re-quoted?

Good one. But my point was toward the 40k$ I heard Porsche had to fix major issue on their GT3. Hows that for you? How about the 12' Boss with their Chinese trans? It seems there is no perfect car heh?

Ok onto your twisting argument about the Z28; why you try to twist my word, I dont know. You sound like a troll (no offense, you just sound like it).

But Ill tell this; GM were 100% stupid to not fix LS7 valves problem in the first time. Still, how many have failed VS one that Did not. You are only going to hear failure here. Some racer on this board or Corvette forum said that the LS7 was one of the best and cheapest racing engine you could get once the oiling problem was fixes. They would rather run 2-3 LS7 then another very expensive racing engine that could fail too.

Second, onto the hydrolics problem. Its an easy fix and GM wanted to save penny that can cost us thousands, true. Bigger line, bigger reservoir, seperate reservoir and slave cyl plastic part that should be billet or something more durable. Its gonna destroy the clutch If it fails.

I dont race my car like some. Main duty is on the street. I flush my clutch fluid and run synthetic fluid. It shifts like butter. They require more maintenance and care for heavy duty.

Now you tell me what car you can buy that is that much capable and track ready. No car is perfect and automaker are here to make money. They build "street" car that most will use on the street and will never have to deal with those problems. And the one racing their car are the minority, sorry. On this board, most are driving hard and racing, in a street car.

Go buy a COPO or a Boss 302S. True racing car.

The Z28 is a great car but they messed up with older components that might not be up to the task. I believe that If you are doing the proper race maintenance, it will hold on for a long time. Ask yourself what is the maintenance of a racecar and are you willing to pay for it? I dont think so. A real race car is around 100k IMO and it wont be street legal.

[Camaro Dude]

Originally Posted by WHAMMO

Good one. But my point was toward the 40k$ I heard Porsche had to fix major issue on their GT3. Hows that for you? How about the 12' Boss with their Chinese trans? It seems there is no perfect car heh?

Ok onto your twisting argument about the Z28; why you try to twist my word, I dont know. You sound like a troll (no offense, you just sound like it).....

......The Z28 is a great car but they messed up with older components that might not be up to the task. I believe that If you are doing the proper race maintenance, it will hold on for a long time.....

I'll answer your first paragraph first, you wrote the key ingredient word, and that is FIXED in regards to Porsche.

I'll gladly even pay out of my own pocket if GM offers a TSB with a re-engineered solution. I'm asking for no freebies, just closure to a problem and "fixed".

2nd paragraph, my response to that is, if one sounds like a possible troll, then the other sounds like someone who drinks "the kool-aid" and more often than not, those types choke on their drink when asked a question. Not accusing you, just sayin' as a counter punch, all things being fair.

I agree with the rest, not looking for an argument at all, on the contrary, just want to paint the picture as it is, to help find a concrete solution down the road, and I feel optimistic that OEM might step up to the plate at some point. At least I got a few to admit my point, without diverting it with noise.

Hard as it may seem to believe by my writing, I'm actually optimistic. : )

[WHAMMO]

You know Im kinda sad too those easy fixes are not going to get fix..especially with the 6th gen around the corner..

Still the best and funniest car I ever had. But its not perfect...

[Fraxum]

No one with a valid criticism is a troll. Let's hope Chevy is listening with the CA6 and the Camaro gets a better clutch. I wonder, are the Stingray clutches improved? Could be a harbinger of the new Camaro.

But we are stuck with what we have. Would a better clutch make anyone more likely to buy a 2016 1LE?

[WHAMMO]

Twisting words is trollish. Means nothing.