01-19-2013, 08:53 PM | #127 |
Drives: RY 2011 2SS A6 Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 997
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Hang on...
Just a sec fellas. I don't think we're finished discussing the GT500 vs ZL1 thing yet. Let's get that and the v6 vs v8 debate wrapped up first before nailing PD vs. Centri down, okay?
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Dry sump LS7, cage, JPSS suspension, Wilwood brakes, fire suppression, ARH 3" headers/exhaust, Z/28 DSSV coilovers, Kirkey seats, TeamTech 6-point harnesses, 19" Forgeline GA3R, 325/30R19 Re11 tires, oil cooler, monster JPSS splitter/wickerbill, CAI, brake ducts. |
01-19-2013, 09:06 PM | #128 |
Drives: Maggie blown LS3 vette Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SE TX
Posts: 1,490
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01-19-2013, 09:14 PM | #129 | |
Account Suspended
Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sandy Hook, CT
Posts: 11,927
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I just keep referring to that fastest list and can't help but see that little ole Maggie on top! Even with a little nitrous help and 75 rwhp less it still seems to be the king. |
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01-20-2013, 03:56 AM | #130 | |
Drives: CGM,twin turbo, cam 2010 SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ROCKMART, GA
Posts: 2,185
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Last edited by JLE58; 01-20-2013 at 04:11 AM. |
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01-20-2013, 10:44 AM | #131 | |
Account Suspended
Drives: ls3 camaro Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: computer
Posts: 388
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01-21-2013, 09:24 AM | #132 | |
Drives: 2008Corvette Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ga
Posts: 691
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150-155 IATS @ 16-18psi with Ice intercooler. Imagine what the IAT's are with just plain water! This is a perfect example of how hot a roots blower gets. A centrifical/turbo with a Air to water intercooler and adding ice will only be in the 70deg. temp range. That is 20lbs of boost and 1600hp! Chris |
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01-21-2013, 10:49 AM | #133 | |
Drives: 8 second C5 Drag Car, C6 Road racer Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cream Ridge, NJ 609-752-0321
Posts: 778
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Jordan, well said, and I do care about what I do, and am passionate about getting the results our customers are looking for. Being at the race track with them regularly is probably what brings this on. There's nothing worse then an unhappy customer staring you in the face as they lost a race because of something you suggested or manufactured. Especially if they most likely would have won and there was $$ on the line, now thats a bad day at work.. It seems to me that those giving opinions are the "parts whores" as other have labeled-not my words, or those giving the opinion of their personal car and only see one as the correct option. Those giving factual data and actually build fast cars, agree that BOTH systems are great when put in the right application. Choose who you feel is offering the best advice FOR YOU! Doug @ ECS |
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01-21-2013, 02:55 PM | #134 | |
Logic is dead
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Let's stick to the facts here. "$2000 less"??? "Cheaper to install"??? Making stuff up that sounds good is not facts. The logging of IATs, and the curve on the dyno, these things are facts. And that's nice you think looks are important and it looks "factory" under your hood. Every time I walk by a Camaro with a maggie, I roll my eyes and think how they probably just opened their wallet to a vendor and have no idea about the product on their car.
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2010 Camaro 2SS/RS (LS3)
573 RWHP 498 RWTQ - Vortech V3 Supercharger - Kooks Stepped Headers, Magnaflow 16580 - Suspension by Pfadt, Hotchkis. 2007 Trailblazer SS- Sold 2001 Trans Am WS6 431 RWHP 408 RWTQ - Sold 1994 Camaro Z28 - Sold |
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01-21-2013, 03:13 PM | #135 |
Drives: American Cars Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA.
Posts: 97
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**WARNING: WALL OF TEXT**
We all want more power and pushing more air/fuel certainly does that, but compressing air generates heat, puts extra stress on the entire drive-train, and adds extra components to be monitored and maintained. For street driven vehicles that you expect to work whenever you "need" them (vs. a race vehicle which is towed) maintenance is an issue that should be considered before chasing after the "experience" desired. Supercharging, All three methods share belt slip/wear problems as well as loading the nose of the crank (adding belt tension has a cost), all have boost bypass solutions, and all have intake charge temp cooling 1.) Roots -Moderate cost -Reliable simple design -Great stop-light/street profile (instant boost) that pulls like a big block (if you can get traction and don't break half shafts), but runs out of steam (boost drop-off) on top end when going "all out", and you need to get rid of a ton of heat seen as high IAT (incoming air) temperature. Even the best cooling solution gets saturated here. Fun on the street every now and then or that occasion you want to pull a tree stump. Pick the right size here to keep rotor RPM speed down and efficiency up with heat build-up lower. Also the nickname "Heaton" for Eaton superchargers comes to mind here. 2.) Twin-Screw -Moderate cost but usually a premium over roots -Reliable like a roots and takes less power to drive but has lobes that can wear over time -Great stop-light/street profile with better top end (no boost drop-off), freeway/track runs are noticeably better with the twin-screw over roots, but while heat is less of an issue compared to roots you still have to get rid of it. -Middle of the road street/strip solution. 3.) Centrifugal -Cost can be similar or more depending on the application compared to roots/ts -Arguably a little less reliable due to complexity of gear drive/impeller RPM and extra plumbing then again this is used in aeronautics -Much better track/freeway performance where boost builds with RPM and feels like an increasingly bigger pull vs. the "big block" experience -This is your wind it out fourth gear track/freeway/1000+rwhp runner but still works on the street Honestly I've seen and used all three and by compensating in different ways you can achieve track and street performance, but out of the box I'd say going from street to strip it would be roots->twin-screw-> centrifugal. Today's Roots, Twin-Screw, and Centrifugal parts are so much better it is a tough choice. Last but not least is Turbocharging which has no crank connection, but adds back-pressure and heats the exhaust side to extreme temps (and sometimes under-hood temps depending) -Can have a higher cost due to parts and complexity -Reliability can vary wildly depending on setup and quality of parts used, while similar to a Centrifugal using an impeller this is driven by exhaust gas and has 2x the plumbing of the Centrifugal -Street/Track performance is customizable and can lean both ways using a boost controller and Turbo size/count, but when boost hits it can be tremendous! This solution is getting better every year and when done right is truly awesome. Lots of talk about IAT, A/F ratios, and timing, but the one thing I don't see here is talking about using EGT (exhaust gas temperatures) as well when tuning these solutions. Sometimes I think people should start with a nitrous kit before they go forced induction and see how that works out. Hope this helps!
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01-21-2013, 03:20 PM | #136 |
"Black Ace"
Drives: Supercharged 2010 SS, 2016 Golf R Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,352
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To each his own, as they say. If/when I get boost, it will be a PD blower because that's what I've always wanted (I'll have to switch back to stock gear ratios, but I'm okay with that) . I won't care if you or anyone else rolls their eyes, since I know I'll happy with it. My car's a DD, not a weekend track warrior, and I want that instant torque available at every RPM, so PD it is.
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2010 2SS/RS M6 "Black Ace" - Delivered 6/4/2009
Mods: Forged 416 LS3, Maggie TVS 2300 SC (~11 psi), custom cam (232/247, .630/.630, 118 LSA), 90-lb. injectors, ZL1 fuel pump & ADM controller, Alky Control meth kit, Monster LT1-SC twin-disk clutch, ZL1 drivetrain conversion w/ DSS 1000-HP axles & 1-pc. driveshaft, CAI Inc. intake w/ ADM scoop, XS Power full exhaust (1 7/8" LT headers with 3" off-road pipes), VMAX CNC-ported TB, LSR adjustable sway bars, LPE rear end-links, BMR 1" drop, BMR polyurethane bushings; UMI trailing arms & toe rods. Built & tuned by Kraftworks. 755 rwhp/708 rwtq |
01-21-2013, 05:48 PM | #137 |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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This post is not directed at anyone in particular....but I must insist that we (no pun intended) cool it, in here...
Let me please remind all that this is a Technical thread, not a sales or product announcement conversation. I greatly appreciate our vendors taking part in here, and offering their varying areas of expertise to assist the OP, but please remember that that IS the goal: To provide information for BlakeH827 to read and consider. I would hope that's why we're all here. Thank you. |
01-21-2013, 06:08 PM | #138 |
Drives: 2SS RS Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD
Posts: 1,272
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Can all of us dudes here just agree that getting blown is awesome? Doesn't really matter how!
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Livernois 2C cam and tune, LS3 conversion, Roto-Fab intake, Kooks headers, DSS driveshaft and axles, BMR suspension parts, VMax ported throttle body, Whipple blower. (623hp).
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01-21-2013, 06:28 PM | #139 |
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 526
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Lmao! Best post so far in this thread!!
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2017 1SS Hyper Blue M6
2001 Ford Lightning |
01-21-2013, 09:36 PM | #140 |
"Black Ace"
Drives: Supercharged 2010 SS, 2016 Golf R Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 1,352
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Agreed!
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2010 2SS/RS M6 "Black Ace" - Delivered 6/4/2009
Mods: Forged 416 LS3, Maggie TVS 2300 SC (~11 psi), custom cam (232/247, .630/.630, 118 LSA), 90-lb. injectors, ZL1 fuel pump & ADM controller, Alky Control meth kit, Monster LT1-SC twin-disk clutch, ZL1 drivetrain conversion w/ DSS 1000-HP axles & 1-pc. driveshaft, CAI Inc. intake w/ ADM scoop, XS Power full exhaust (1 7/8" LT headers with 3" off-road pipes), VMAX CNC-ported TB, LSR adjustable sway bars, LPE rear end-links, BMR 1" drop, BMR polyurethane bushings; UMI trailing arms & toe rods. Built & tuned by Kraftworks. 755 rwhp/708 rwtq |
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