Almost Thrilling...

[Mr. Wyndham]

A few threads recently have brought up the thought of "what else can you buy with this money?" They were questions asked simply to deal with the time on our hands. But it was a question I wanted to answer for myself...I thought it might be interesting to know what I'm "passing by" to get my dream car.

Since I'm interested in the back seats, and the performance...All two-seaters were out...including the Corvette. :(

The BMW M3 was an obvious first place to start...for 65000, you get a great little car. It's got slightly-better than Camaro SS performance numbers, but I found it lacking the Camaro's presence...the attitude just isn't there. Almost an identical story with the C63 AMG coupe from Mercedes...very nice car. Very potent performer, too, for the power it's got. While much more aggressive-looking than the BMW, it just doesn't do anything for me in the looks department...

In short...I gave up. Besides the Mustang GT500 (which isn't what I'm looking for), there is nothing out there that's quite like the ZL1. So, having given up looking in my price-range...I expanded my "search".

The only car that does it.....for me....is the Aston Martin Virage. I've always been a fan of the design of ANY Aston...but this one has all the looks plus it's technically a 2+2 coupe. Here's some quick points on this car: 490hp/420tq, 3836 lbs, 186" long, 75" wide, 50.4" tall.....0-60 in 4.6 sec, and quarter comes in 12.8. Oh, and EPA estimates 13/18 fuel economy. But it's got the LOOK...and all for only $212,000!

Oddly enough, the two share many characteristics. Deep rear-quarter stamping in the sheetmetal, low-roof/short-windows...IRS, Front-engine / Rear drive...2+2 interior arrangements...

Okay. Stop.

I'm not seriously comparing the Aston Martin to the Camaro ZL1. I'm not going to even go there...two completely different beasts. What I do want to say is that I find it completely thrilling, for one thing...that the ZL1 suffers from many of the same compromises as the german cars people seem to idolize...fuel economy...low clearance...high price (both initial cost and maintenance). Yet it comes with so much more for the price. We're really striking the chords of the pedigree, with this car...

But what I find most thrilling, is that if the ZL1 didn't exist...(pretend for a moment no Camaro does)...the only car out there that gets my blood pumping nearly as much is a $200,000 Luxury GT. Well done, Chevy.

[mike25]

Id have to agree...i think this car is going to suprise everyone...in more ways than one.

[Z_Rocks]

I wish GM could have shaved off 400 pounds off of ZL1. You have to carry 4200 pounds of weight constantly. I've had heavy and light cars. Not going back to heavy again.

But for the money, you get a lot of car. Till now, I'm not a fan of GT500, but I read that a lot of suspension work has gone into the 2013 and 350 pounds less weight.

[avcbm]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

A few threads recently have brought up the thought of "what else can you buy with this money?" They were questions asked simply to deal with the time on our hands. But it was a question I wanted to answer for myself...I thought it might be interesting to know what I'm "passing by" to get my dream car.

Since I'm interested in the back seats, and the performance...All two-seaters were out...including the Corvette. :(

The BMW M3 was an obvious first place to start...for 65000, you get a great little car. It's got slightly-better than Camaro SS performance numbers, but I found it lacking the Camaro's presence...the attitude just isn't there. Almost an identical story with the C63 AMG coupe from Mercedes...very nice car. Very potent performer, too, for the power it's got. While much more aggressive-looking than the BMW, it just doesn't do anything for me in the looks department...

In short...I gave up. Besides the Mustang GT500 (which isn't what I'm looking for), there is nothing out there that's quite like the ZL1. So, having given up looking in my price-range...I expanded my "search".

The only car that does it.....for me....is the Aston Martin Virage. I've always been a fan of the design of ANY Aston...but this one has all the looks plus it's technically a 2+2 coupe. Here's some quick points on this car: 490hp/420tq, 3836 lbs, 186" long, 75" wide, 50.4" tall.....0-60 in 4.6 sec, and quarter comes in 12.8. Oh, and EPA estimates 13/18 fuel economy. But it's got the LOOK...and all for only $212,000!

Oddly enough, the two share many characteristics. Deep rear-quarter stamping in the sheetmetal, low-roof/short-windows...IRS, Front-engine / Rear drive...2+2 interior arrangements...

Okay. Stop.

I'm not seriously comparing the Aston Martin to the Camaro ZL1. I'm not going to even go there...two completely different beasts. What I do want to say is that I find it completely thrilling, for one thing...that the ZL1 suffers from many of the same compromises as the german cars people seem to idolize...fuel economy...low clearance...high price (both initial cost and maintenance). Yet it comes with so much more for the price. We're really striking the chords of the pedigree, with this car...

But what I find most thrilling, is that if the ZL1 didn't exist...(pretend for a moment no Camaro does)...the only car out there that gets my blood pumping nearly as much is a $200,000 Luxury GT. Well done, Chevy.

For me it seems that while shopping for the ZL1 the only competitor in the same performance and price range is the GT500... nothing can come close to these two at the moment, and right now the Camaro and GT500 are tied together in mortal combat..... It’s going to be interesting to say the least especially when the GT500 releases MSRP and Performance numbers...

[thespymaster]

First, it's not what else I could buy for the money, strictly a GM afficiado !

However some FBODFATHER qoutes, that I believe got little attention, that are worth a reposst :

Originally Posted by fbodfather

What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - ............................More to come



"2. Our tests -- as our horsepower ratings - are always 'conservative' -".

More attention to the second qoute should be realized... The ZL1 is going to make the exotic builders (Lamboghini,.... etc) take a notice.........................

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by avcbm

For me it seems that while shopping for the ZL1 the only competitor in the same performance and price range is the GT500... nothing can come close to these two at the moment, and right now the Camaro and GT500 are tied together in mortal combat..... It’s going to be interesting to say the least especially when the GT500 releases MSRP and Performance numbers...

I'll bet you GT500 MSRP will be less than ZL1.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by thespymaster

First, it's not what else I could buy for the money, strictly a GM afficiado !

However some FBODFATHER qoutes, that I believe got little attention, that are worth a reposst :

More attention to the second qoute should be realized... The ZL1 is going to make the exotic builders (Lamboghini,.... etc) take a notice.........................

A great point to bring up!! The effort put into this car is truly astounding. One of the things that gets me all starry-eyed when I think about it.

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

I'll bet you GT500 MSRP will be less than ZL1.

I wouldn't put too much money behind that bet.....

And I'm just going to pin this to the wall....I don't intend for this thread to become all about the Mustang...

[mike25]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

A great point to bring up!! The effort put into this car is truly astounding. One of the things that gets me all starry-eyed when I think about it.


I wouldn't put too much money behind that bet.....
And I'm just going to pin this to the wall....this thread will not turn into a thread about the Mustang...

x2. If anything, ford is simply pumping the media with "awesome specs"- I expect ford to do two things, release a gt500 with all the power, and not quite all the handling/ extra goodies for a decent price possibly to try and underscore the zl1, and then a gt500 with options for handling/ extras..not saying this will happen..but its something i can see ford doing.

p.s.- just my opinion- not going any further with this as like you said, its not a mustang thread.

['StangBlaster5000]

I really do love how American performance cars are always compared to Europe's finest. Although American cars do not have anywhere near the build quality (or the PRICE), their LOOKS in my honest opinion are far and beyond what you get from Europe (for lets say under 350K)
People who think they get "Noticed" in their M3's are WRONG! There is a Maserati in my neighborhood, and I have noticed people really don't turn their heads when it drives by, same with the Aston Martin, car guys will notice it, but it doesn't catch the eye like a 200+K car SHOULD!!
The same can NOT be said about the Big Three's Performance cars! They have the bold looks that a 200 THOUSAND DOLLAR Car should (But usually doesn't) Have!!!

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

I'll bet you GT500 MSRP will be less than ZL1.

One thread without people talking up the GT500 would be incredible....

[OldJedi]

Pondering your question I thought about what I would buy if the ZL1 did not exist. I will admit that I spent some time at a Ford store sitting in a Boss 302. I loved the Recaro seats but was still left wondering why they added Recaros, beefed up the suspension and increased horsepower and DIDNOT put Brembos all the way around. I liked the Boss more than the GT500.

What was really intriguing for me was the 1LE Concept Camaro. If Chevy built this car with the ZL1 suspension & exhaust and an LS3 with a Hot Cam with a retune making 450-460HP, would make a terrific car. This car priced in the $45,000 area would easily out sell the ZL1. MR suspension and 200-300 less pounds would make a really nice balanced car. Maybe not as fast as a ZL1 but a really nice package.

I am kind of glad that the ZL1 came out before the 1LE. I am not sure which way I would go if I had to choose between the ZL1 and a 460 HP 1LE (Z28).

[lbls1]

A sad reality that I am seeing is that it is increasingly becoming less important on which car to buy from the market. Most cars today IMO are anonymous in style and presence. In the sixties and all the way up to the mid nineties, GM cars offered style, performance and value that were distinctive from their competing brands.

I do not see individual style and passion from the cars of today. Other than the camaro, I don't see much of anything out there within a reasonable price that I would be willing to risk a lot of time and trouble in purchasing.

That would leave me to buy either a malibu (yarn) for serious daily driving, tahoe (but I already have a truck), corvette (If I felt like spending more money), and that's about it. Other than the corvette, I'd have to look at bmw in terms of a serious car purchase.

[2ndCamaro79]

If you like muscle cars there is nothing close to the ZL1 besides the Mustang and SRT8 cars. The modern muscle car is what its predecessors were in the 60s. That is triple the bang for the buck plus some. When the original muscle/pony cars were out it was like no other cars were being made. The ZL1 is soo sweet I just don't know what else I would buy. Even if I won the lotto I would still put the most miles on my Camaros.

p.s. I saw a WS6 today and BOY that thing will NEVER age! Would not mind one of those with a LSX under the hood!!

[1st Gen Forever]

Originally Posted by OldJedi

Pondering your question I thought about what I would buy if the ZL1 did not exist. I will admit that I spent some time at a Ford store sitting in a Boss 302. I loved the Recaro seats but was still left wondering why they added Recaros, beefed up the suspension and increased horsepower and DIDNOT put Brembos all the way around. I liked the Boss more than the GT500.

What was really intriguing for me was the 1LE Concept Camaro. If Chevy built this car with the ZL1 suspension & exhaust and an LS3 with a Hot Cam with a retune making 450-460HP, would make a terrific car. This car priced in the $45,000 area would easily out sell the ZL1. MR suspension and 200-300 less pounds would make a really nice balanced car. Maybe not as fast as a ZL1 but a really nice package.

I am kind of glad that the ZL1 came out before the 1LE. I am not sure which way I would go if I had to choose between the ZL1 and a 460 HP 1LE (Z28).

I'm kind of liking the 1LE idea as well but do you think it would be it's own model with a different LS3 or simply a suspension upgrade on the SS?

I ask because GM doesn't seem fond of the idea of "slightly" changing engines. We do have the L99 which goes against my point but in general they seem to keep engines consistent to keep them more modular to vehicles rather than having different "one-offs".