[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

If anything can make a "Kei-sized" car sell in the US, autonomous tech will be it.

Yeah, you're correct. It's pretty much an inevitability that any long-term trend like moving to a full-on Kei car platform will go hand in hand with autonomous driving. In the not very distant future, you might have a very small car that's more like an appliance, like an iPhone, that's your own personal bubble. If you need extra storage capacity, you can get a "trailer" that's really a storage-only vehicle that's programed to follow you if desired. Just as over time, personal encounters and conversation are giving way to interacting online, as silly as this sounds today, the concept of having multiple people sit in the same physical car might one day be seen as arcane. Instead, you'll be traveling with your family in a small fleet of autonomous cars driving in unison. It would also help overcome today's congestion where a single person could drive a 4-person car all by themselves. Instead of having HOV lanes, there might be one lane on future highways designated for manually driven cars.

I know I am getting a bit sci-fi at this point and very off topic. But anyway, back to today: Small, easy to drive, expressive cars with good fuel economy, storage, and an extension of your lifestyle are in. This is why I am leaning on getting a Jeep Renegade as a second car, which fits the bill well. However, make no mistakes about it, when the nuclear apocalypse happens and the Kei cars drop off the network as infrastructure crumbles, I will dust my black Camaro off and go full on Mad Max in what will be one of the last V8s on the road. But step one is to garage it for now and get the Jeep.

[Drysideshooter]

I'm 53. My 2SS vert is a fun, sunny day car. My wife and I will probably do a road trip or two with it this summer. I have a friend that's a few years older and he has a gen 5 vert that has been a fun car for several years and has under 10k miles on it. I don't think we're probably GM's target customer for the Camaro, but I don't think we're highly unusual. I seem to see a wide range of ages driving the coupes, at least where I live. I believe the gen 6 is a pretty incredible car, as evidenced by the cars the automotive press is comparing it to these days.

BMW loosened lending/leasing guidelines several years ago. If you had a pulse you would probably qualify. As many predicted, there ended up being a lot of low mileage BMW's that had been repo'd for sale. That hurt new sales a bit and it took some time to work through. Hopefully if the lenders are tightening up a bit they'll avoid taking so many back.

Rebates and such are never a sign of sales strength. If GM can't get the unsold inventory to a healthy number we'll see some increasing incentives. It doesn't help the value of late model used vehicles when they do that.

Even though the price of a Camaro, especially a well equipped V8 might seem high for a "Camaro", given what it offers I think it's a pretty great value.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by COmaro

They managed to include a deal-killer feature for every age group.

I don't agree with that. Every car has deal killers depending on who you're talking to. And every car is perfect, depending on who you talk to. To generalize that broadly is unfair.

You can't please 100% of people 100% of the time. But if you can please enough to keep your business running profitably, then you're doing a good job.

Originally Posted by Indydriver

A factor that hasn't been mentioned-and isn't cyclical, it's systemic-is the financial crippling of the Millenial Generation by their crushing student debt. I see this in my own family. My eldest is 32, makes good money as an attorney and yet, had to borrow $16k from me to buy a 5 yo SUV because he couldn't get a car loan due to his $100k in student debt. I won't argue his lack of responsibility in addressing this but, guess what, he's got a lot of company in his peer group. This issue is dramatically impacting the housing market. I don't know about your town but, around here, they can't build rental properties fast enough because young college grads can't get mortgages to buy anything.

Couple this with Baby Boomers, our largest demographic (and most likely auto enthusiasts) now retiring at the rate of 10,000/day-or too poor to retire and you've got long term decline of "peak auto". I am a good example. I retired two years ago and my 2014 Camaro convertible will be the last new car I ever buy. My DD is a superb Tahoe I bought for $21.5 with 55,000 miles on it, in great condition. Why spend $70K on a new one?

Bottom line, you're going to see many industries contracting because of a demographics driven long term decline in demand. Unfortunately, the overall impact on the economy will be somewhere between bad and disastrous.

I do agree with this. Good thoughts...

I wish more people would realize. I'm in education...frankly, I'm embarrassed for what we're doing to these kids. They don't NEED to be going to these outrageously priced schools...the don't NEED to WASTE (yes, in most cases it's an unnecessary waste) money on college housing...and in many cases, these kids don't even NEED to go through a four-year degree. But we force them there...and sell them on this stupid notion of the "college experience".

And besides THAT point...I think part of the reason the younger generation isn't as interested in "cool" cars like they used to be, is what you've said above...frankly, they'd rather spend their money on other feel-good gadgets, like phones and video games...not because they're lazy...but because it's the cheaper alternative.

Bills and costs have risen, yes....but think of all the NEW bills, too...

Cell phone, Cable, Internet, Student Loans...etc

These didn't exist not too long ago...and on top of all THAT....because of their crappy credit, and miserable debt-to-income ratios...these young people can't buy houses. Which means they rent...and they become very comfortable with the lifestyle, without realizing what an impact renting has on your finances long-term...which means they blindly (sometimes eagerly) throw money out the door each month and will Never. Get. It. Back.

No home equity to grow...nothing saved....just debt, debt, debt, and bills.

...wouldn't you choose to buy a fancy phone, and a boring "cheap" car, instead?


I grew up with this age group.....I was one of the very lucky that pushed through an average college, no dorm costs, and worked on my off time so I could pay my way and graduated with no debt.

...shortly after I bought my first ZL1.

[Trizin]

Originally Posted by fattyz28

I think some of the fault falls back on the dealer myself. In my area, since then 6th gen rolled out, I have seen all automatics with the exception of 3 or 4 6 speeds.

I bet you can't find a leftover manual 2016 in the country and most everyone who got the 20% off got an auto. Not all but most.

That would be a job I would like. Getting to option out the vehicles for a dealership. You have to a variety. Not just loaded to the gills or stripped down.

The chevy dealer here im pretty sure has not had a single manual camaro. I had mine transferred from another dealer but finding stick last march for 2016 was almost impossible. I was in for service and i was still kind of baffled by the ordering of the camaros.

[reeper]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

Reeper,

Mr. Wyndham is spot on to my point.

Also just to clear up something, I'm really talking about the Camaro V6 as a high point of sell during higher gas prices. I've already seen this a few years ago when gas hit $4.00 a gallon. I stopped in at the dealer and watched the Camaro V6s leave off the lot while Tahoes covered the used area.

If he is I'm not seeing the connection? Based on this comment alone your under the impression that if gas prices increase a large contingent of buyers would suddenly dump their roomy family hauling SUV's for a 2 seat Camaro V6? Somehow this does not make sense to me.

[reeper]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Wrong. It is partly due to lending practices. I tend to believe my biz partners who just up and walked out of Chrysler after 30 yrs. I read the memo myself. They are tightening lending on sub prime, which is the biggest chunk of buyers out there. No denying that. Now, they didn't say for how long, but it's happening. And I'm sure other brands are about to fall in line. It's the lending institutions. They are putting crazy high fee's on sub prime now. Which is pushing that buyer out. If you aren't on the inside, then it's easy to say that others are just.........over thinking it.

I own a consulting firm that deals directly with Dealerships. I know. I know their numbers. I know their decline rates. I know their buy rates. I know national data on the credit side. Anyhow, it is what it is. People like me with spot on credit and higher income it won't affect. This affects middle America and sub prime.

Quiz: One of my dealer partners. It's a Hyundai Dealership. Smaller Volume. They move about 130 cars a month.

Question for ya'll. How many apps do you think they are taking and out of those apps, how many are declined. We are talking 520 credit score and under.

We are talking auto's too. Not Real Estate, where the decline rate is even higher.

I could be wrong but your almost on a different planet talking about subprime lending and credit tightening? The rest of us on this thread are talking about declining camaro and corvette sales. I would think if credit was truly an issue why wouldn't it impact all auto sales? Further if it were just impacting domestic muscle cars why are Ford and Dodge less impacted?

You should possibly send a note to the author of this article and let him he is wrong as well. It appears he's stating exactly my thoughts I've stated in this thread:

https://noln.net/2016/11/30/2016-aut...itting-brakes/

[lizzard]

Yet I can't find a 17, 2ss, a8, magnetic ride, in hypermaticalic blue anywhere in my state lol

[rburke76]

hey, looking for a deal on a Camaro and you are in the mid atlantic area, Wilmington Delaware dealership will work with you and get you a deal on a new Camaro...ask for salesman Scott Fisher 302-575-0161....www.diverchevrolet.com....email - scottf@diverchev.com...tell him Mr. Nag sent you.....

[enzia35]

Means I'll get a good deal on another one.

[RobertSmith]

GM killed the Camaro once, they will do it again if they need to.

[LStick]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

It's not just Chevy. In case any of you want a heads up.........the next bubble about to burst is sub prime lending in the auto industry. Chrysler has already sent out the memo. No more long term financing and no more sub prime. Credit is tightening. Just watch. You'll go back to this post throughout the year. It's coming.

I was sitting in the service area when another customer walked in and engaged a salesman in a conversation about a new car in front of me.

FIRST WORDS OUT OF HIS MOUTH- " My bankruptcy discharges in a few weeks and I figured I'd start looking"

Am I missing something here?

[RobertSmith]

Originally Posted by LStick

I was sitting in the service area when another customer walked in and engaged a salesman in a conversation about a new car in front of me.

FIRST WORDS OUT OF HIS MOUTH- " My bankruptcy discharges in a few weeks and I figured I'd start looking"

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, he's doing it "right" because there are no consequences for him!

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by lizzard

Yet I can't find a 17, 2ss, a8, magnetic ride, in hypermaticalic blue anywhere in my state lol

Here you go

Classic Chevrolet Sugar Land
13115 Southwest Freeway , Sugar Land, TX

Mileage: 0 Fuel: Gasoline
Exterior Color: Hyper Blue Metallic Engine: 6.2L V8 16V GDI OHV
Stock #: 163209 Transmission: 8-Speed Automatic
VIN: 1G1FH1R79H0163209 Drivetype: RWD
Interior Color: Jet Black

Read more at https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...XBC35LYDzlF.99

WHEELS, 20. LOW GLOSS BLACK, POWER SUNROOF, MAGNETIC RIDE CONTROL, 50-STATE EMISSIONS, HYPER BLUE METALLIC, CHEVROLET MYLINK AUDIO SYSTEM, GROUP CONTRIBUTION, ENGINE, 6.2L V8 DI, 8-SPD AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION, EXHAUST, DUAL MODE, CARGO MAT, BLACK SS WHEEL CENTER CAPS, CARGO NET


OR

Classic Chevrolet Cadillac Buick GMC
3855 Eastex Fwy , Beaumont, TX

Optional equipment includes: Magnetic Ride Control, Transmission: 8-Speed Automatic, Dual Mode Performance Exhaust, Radio: Chevrolet MyLink w/Navigation, (0 P) Hyper Blue Metallic, All-Weather Cargo Mat w/Camaro Logo (LPO)... Classic Southeast Texas - Your Favorite Hometown Dealer

Read more at https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...w3MuX87SUoM.99

lol

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NCSD

Build a great car and people will buy it? Not these days....

Chevy built a great car, but I think things have changed with the younger generation. Cars are not what makes them happy, cars are basic transportation and not status symbols. Most of the people who should be buying camaros, ( the 20 and 30 year olds) don't care how much performance a camaro has. They look at cars differently than the older generations, to them cars are for getting from point a to point b. They'd rather spend their money elsewhere. My brothers are younger than I am and they drive very basic cars that don't take up much of their income, they go out to eat alot, they travel, they go on trips and buy a lot of things that I wouldn't buy because they have different priorities. Thats just my theory and I hope I'm wrong, because if I'm right, performance cars like the camaro will fade away....

I agree and disagree with that.

First the agree, to many in my age bracket (almost 30) cars are just a way to get from point A to point B. As long as it gets them there, has bluetooth and some techy stuff they are happy.

The part I disagree with is the not status symbol part. Car's are still very much a status symbol. I had a few friends lucky enough to land very good jobs out of college. You know what kind of cars they bought? I will give you a hint, not Chevys and Fords but BMW and Infinity. One friend was looking at SRT Challengers, he ended up in a G37 coupe. Wanted more of the luxury/I made it symbol. Sports cars to a lot of people my age aren't status symbols, luxury brand badges are.