[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I guess a tie would be better than nothing

Kinda sad though if that’s all one can expect or be happy with as a mustang owner

Why can’t it come out and kick the shit out of the 1le? That’s what we would expect here and what gm usually delivers.

It seems many in the ford crowd are more than happy to just make excuses

I guess I am just a realist/pessimist LOL. The mustang fan in me hopes it does kick the 1LE's ass, I just don't think it will

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

That GT500 better deliver. I want it to actually. The bar to beat would be the LT5's 755HP. With the given time they have there would be no problem with it but with all these delays it sounds like GM could have time to clap back if we're waiting til 2020.



And considering the price of the GT350 and all the work put into it. It's sort of sad it's in competition with the SS 1LE. It's sounds better than one I'll give that much.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Spartan268

That GT500 better deliver. I want it to actually. The bar to beat would be the LT5's 755HP. With the given time they have there would be no problem with it but with all these delays it sounds like GM could have time to clap back if we're waiting til 2020.



And considering the price of the GT350 and all the work put into it. It's sort of sad it's in competition with the SS 1LE. It's sounds better than one I'll give that much.

That is the crazy part, isn't it? Not only do the GT350's have a higher entry point, but the actual cost after ADM is crazy. Some dummies were paying 60K - 70K for a base one not too long ago. While I (we) are paying 44K for a 2SS 1LE

However from a consumer's standpoint, I am ok with GM being cheaper to buy. You get a lot more for your money.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Spartan268

That GT500 better deliver. I want it to actually. The bar to beat would be the LT5's 755HP. With the given time they have there would be no problem with it but with all these delays it sounds like GM could have time to clap back if we're waiting til 2020.



And considering the price of the GT350 and all the work put into it. It's sort of sad it's in competition with the SS 1LE. It's sounds better than one I'll give that much.

Clap back?? Do you work for the Huffington Post?? Lol

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Easy. When Mustang fanboys keep telling us the GT is a Zl1 killer, yet is 11 seconds behind the Zl1 on the fast list I posted, they have to come up with some kind of win mentally. So, if it ties, they will consider it a huge victory. For us? It's a failure. That's the differences between the way we think.


Think about that. The Zl1 is a full 1/4 mile ahead of a GT on the fast list. A full 1/4 mile ahead. In 1 lap!!!!!!!!!! 4 lap race and the Zl1 is lapping the GT. So, their arguments, whatever they may be will fall flat.

Exactly. And it was even more hilarious when they started trying to target Hellcat owners.

Originally Posted by Mountain

The interesting thing is this:

The top Ford engineers on Mustang, in interviews lately, seem to give the impression they don't care at all about what Camaro is doing.

But then you come out with something like the PP2? Why? "To give customers a more thrilling experience"?

But... you put very wide Michelin Sport Cups on the car, go through the effort to completely retune the vehicle dynamics (ABS/TC/Stability/MRC), tweak the chassis/suspension (bracing and bushings) and lower the car a fair amount (with new springs). That's all a lot of effort and money just to offer "a more thrilling experience".

GTFO.

You could accomplish the same thing by just throwing on the GT350 springs (the PP2 are essentially that; I'm talking literally here), utilizing the GT350 MRC cal, using the GT350 tires (Pilot Sports/PS4; wider than PP1) and then, maybe offer some alternate wheels.

No, there was a higher goal here. A car or lap time was targeted. And... perhaps, somewhere along the way, in development, it was found that this "PP2" thing that was being developed as a skunk-works, was looking to be able to perform better than the GT350...

So they're not trying to keep up with the SS 1LE with the GT PP2 yet they're running around saying "Venom kills Demons", LOL! I find that laughable. So they aren't going after the SS 1LE but they ARE going after a 1 year production only Demon that will be 2 years old and out of production before the GT500 even hits...

Originally Posted by shaffe

I guess I am just a realist/pessimist LOL. The mustang fan in me hopes it does kick the 1LE's ass, I just don't think it will

Quite honestly, I would not be upset if it does beat the SS 1LE nor would I be surprised. If it doesn't beat it then it will be close enough that it remains a driver's race.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by hotlap

V6 1LE > GT
SS > PP1
1LE > GT350 (until proven otherwise)
1LE > PP2 (safe bet)
Chevy engineering > Ford's


Sweep

Fixed it.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Quite honestly, I would not be upset if it does beat the SS 1LE nor would I be surprised. If it doesn't beat it then it will be close enough that it remains a driver's race.

Agree with both points. The PP2 should beat the 1LE. They've had plenty of time to focus on that specifically and it will only provided more fuel for gen7!

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Agree with both points. The PP2 should beat the 1LE. They've had plenty of time to focus on that specifically and it will only provided more fuel for gen7!

So in the pecking order, where does the Bullitt land? Is it above the PP2 package or below it? I'm so confused now. haha.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

So in the pecking order, where does the Bullitt land? Is it above the PP2 package or below it? I'm so confused now. haha.

It's basically a PP1 with an wheel and graphics kit with the ford power pack 1...so...

PP1.5(ish?)?

[torqueaddict]

I can't wait for PP3.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

However from a consumer's standpoint, I am ok with GM being cheaper to buy. You get a lot more for your money.

Shouldn't that be a no-brainer? Who likes to pay more for less? If these specialty Fords were at the very least solidly built, one could somewhat justify the cost, but sadly they don't seem to be. You're paying for a name.

And sure, their resale value might be higher, but they cost more up front. Their depreciation rate would have to be really low to offset some of that cost difference.

[BlaqWhole]

Bullitt is basically the equivalent of a GT PP1 with M6 trans, a custom tune, "Bullitt" badges, and a $5K increase in price. It'll cost more than a PP1 A10 GT, more than a PP2 GT, and about as much as a GT350 while not performing as good as any of the aforementioned cars. All three of those cars will beat it in the quarter mile, it might be able to beat the PP1 GT around a track but that ain't saying much, and you can look really cool while trying to act like Steve McQueen as you battle your way thru the rough streets taking down bad guys.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Mountain

GTFO.

You could accomplish the same thing by just throwing on the GT350 springs (the PP2 are essentially that; I'm talking literally here), utilizing the GT350 MRC cal, using the GT350 tires (Pilot Sports/PS4; wider than PP1) and then, maybe offer some alternate wheels.

No, there was a higher goal here. A car or lap time was targeted. And... perhaps, somewhere along the way, in development, it was found that this "PP2" thing that was being developed as a skunk-works, was looking to be able to perform better than the GT350...

all 350's come with SC2's starting in '19

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Easy. When Mustang fanboys keep telling us the GT is a Zl1 killer, yet is 11 seconds behind the Zl1 on the fast list I posted, they have to come up with some kind of win mentally. So, if it ties, they will consider it a huge victory. For us? It's a failure. That's the differences between the way we think.


Think about that. The Zl1 is a full 1/4 mile ahead of a GT on the fast list. A full 1/4 mile ahead. In 1 lap!!!!!!!!!! 4 lap race and the Zl1 is lapping the GT. So, their arguments, whatever they may be will fall flat.

I know you have trouble keeping up, but nobody ever compared the GT to the ZL1 on a road course. The GT is only .5 seconds slower that a ZL1 in the 1/4 mile bone stock... with a tune its damn near a drivers race.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Bullitt is basically the equivalent of a GT PP1 with M6 trans, a custom tune, "Bullitt" badges, and a $5K increase in price. It'll cost more than a PP1 A10 GT, more than a PP2 GT, and about as much as a GT350 while not performing as good as any of the aforementioned cars. All three of those cars will beat it in the quarter mile, it might be able to beat the PP1 GT around a track but that ain't saying much, and you can look really cool while trying to act like Steve McQueen as you battle your way thru the rough streets taking down bad guys.

It also has a GT350 intake manifold and GT350 intake. It has some different chrome trim, stitching, and speedometer. I am not much of a fan of the Bullitt and I have gotten into it with them over at M6G regarding the silliness of the car (should have stuck with real heritage; ie Mach1), but there is admittedly some value built into the car.