Forget the Z28...get straight to the ZL1

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Ummm...in case you missed it, Ford does not even currently offer a GT500KR. A specific number of those cars were built to celebrate the anniversary of the original 1968 GT500KR and that was all that will ever be made.

I know that has nothing to do with a ZL1 Camaro, but let's face it, what would be GM's incentive it greenlight such a project?

So the KR was a special model for 2008?

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

So the KR was a special model for 2008?

Actually, late 2008 and early 2009. They built 1,571 cars, an exact match in production to what was built by Shelby Automobiles in 1968. 825 units were built for US distribution in 2008, and an additional 746 cars were built in early 2009 to help meet worldwide demand of the vehicle. Of those 746 built in 2009, only 571 units were available for U.S. customers, the remainder of the units were designated for delivery to buyers in countries that did not receive any 2008 models, including Canada.

Why do you think the KR's were priced so much higher than the regular GT500's?

[DGthe3]

Alright I was wondering because in case you missed it he made his post November 1st, 2008. So while its true they don't currently offer it, when he made his post it was true.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Alright I was wondering because in case you missed it he made his post November 1st, 2008. So while its true they don't currently offer it, when he made his post it was true.

Ha, I didn't notice the original post date. That's what I get for not paying attention to detail.

[BOBSS]

ZL1 is a motor, of course GM owns it, you can buy the motor right now, an all aluminum 427
It was the king of the CANAM racing series

[Camaro_Corvette]

Why can't we have both

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 1_2Many

The ZR1 is $100k minimum and besides it is a completely different vehicle. Your points about the Corvette are completely irrelevant regarding the proposition of an $80k Camaro.

I believe more $80k Camaro ZL1's would sell than $100k Corvette ZR1's.

Not irrelavant, sorry. Instead of being a Camaro geek (and that's s good thing by me) imagine you are selling a full line of Chevys. How many fewer Z06s and ZR1s would you sell because they bought an $80,000 Camaro.
? Ford doesn't have that problem.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Phil, welcome to the site, and thanks for your very thought-out input!!
There are two "factions" on this site...those who would agree with you, and those who don't, necessarily. We get along VERY well, and we all agree on one thing: The Z/28 is a VERY important name to the Camaro.

Be careful when asserting that mistakes were made, or something was screwed up,
'cause it alllllll depends on your perspective.

Originally Posted by 35thanniversaryphil

First of all, I think I speak for many people on this forum, GM made a mistake and will make an even bigger mistake with the model organization of the 5th generation Camaro. The Camaro model organization has always been like this:

RS < Z28 < SS < ZL1

Define "always".

Since you did your research, I'm sure you realize that for 20+ years the SS did not exist, and the Z28 was the the Top Camaro. I could argue that that alone makes the Z28 more important to Camaro than the SS name. You should also find that the ZL1 was equivalent to an accident, a sneaky order placed for only 69 Camaros with very unique engines. It was not a mainstream model of the Camaro by any means. In the first generation, the Z28 and SS were both exceptionally good at different things, making it impossible to stack them...and the 4thgen SS was initially an aftermarket car...later to be adopted by GM, and placed above the Z simply because it would have been stupid to place a higher-performing car below it. Had GM done an SS from the factory outright, the models may have been structured as they are now, who knows?
(many of the 4th gen team members are on the 5th gen car.....for whatever that's worth to you.)

Originally Posted by 35thanniversaryphil

I believe that GM will use the "Z28" name for the new high performance Camaro made to compete with the Mustang Shelby GT500. This is a grave error because the Z28 is supposed to have less performance than the SS.

According to who?!?! The original Z28's performance was limited by displacement limits in the racing series it was entered in. Had that limit not existed, it could have very well been just as fast, if not faster, than the SS of the day.

[SSCamaroZ28]

Z28 always has been the Camaro special performance car, a car that did everything good, SS was not. The 4th Gen has to be disregarded because of the scenario that SS was reintroduced in. A quick fix effort to boost declining sales. It didn't work and was barely different than the Z28 and technically was a Z28. They're returning to the way it should have been with the 5th Gen, SS as the high production performance V8 car and Z28 as the lower production all-around special performance car.

Also, the ZL1 stuff should really stop, that's what we have Z28 for. The "ZL1" was just an engine, not a model. An aluminum 427 racing engine. The car was a ZL1 optioned special order COPO Camaro. There was a handful of them made only one year by the factory from GM and there has never been any since. All we need is a car that can destroy whatever the competition has to offer, not some 650HP supercar that no one can afford. GM won't do it anyway, and that wouldn't make sense with the Corvette around. Why would GM bank on a name that the pubic has no clue about besides auto enthusiasts when they already know that everyone knows Z28 = Top Camaro? Most people back in the day didn't know what the ZL1 was and it's still the same today. The business case just isn't there, among other things.

[a_Username]

I don't care which badge the upcoming Camaro has on it, just as long as it competes with the GT500.

[35thanniversaryphil]

I appreciate the worm welcome DragonEye :-) and will make sure to keep my opinions in check because they are simply my own point of view

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 35thanniversaryphil

I appreciate the worm welcome DragonEye :-) and will make sure to keep my opinions in check because they are simply my own point of view

Dude, your first post was pretty serious stuff. And you got a serious reply from one of the mods who takes this stuff seriously.

So don't take it personal. You came in with some strong words and got a strong opinion back.

Don't back down. It's not what these threads are about. Stick to your guns and engage.

All opinions are respected here. However, they may just get a response.

So, seriously, this Camaro stuff is serious enough, the Z28 is like super serious.

[35thanniversaryphil]

Originally Posted by BOBSS

ZL1 is a motor, of course GM owns it, you can buy the motor right now, an all aluminum 427
It was the king of the CANAM racing series

Attachment 64873

That is true and in 1969 the car was pretty much alled the COPO ZL1 because of the engine name. Its like calling a new Camaro with the ZR1 engine a "LS9 Camaro".

BUT, Fast forward to 2002 and GM with the help of a company called GMMG created an F-Body called the ZL1 Camaro. They created 3 prototypes and 69 sellable cars with full GM factory warranty. There were 3 phases, phase 1=400HP, phase 2=475hp, phase 3=600hp. So therefore I believe that now the ZL1 is a camaro model name only used for the very top model.

Here is a link to the prototype ZL1 Camaro:
http://www.camaroz28.com/articles/2002zl1/index.shtml

Here is the link to the GMMG website so you can check it out for yourself:
http://gmmginc.net/programs/ZL1/

[wildpaws]

RS in the first gen. Camaro (and all other gens. as far as I'm aware) was never a performance model, it was strictly an appearence package that could be ordered on any model from an L6 base Camaro up to and including the Z/28 and SS. So RS <Z/28 <SS <ZL1 is an invalid comparison. First gen. performance facts, the Z/28 could easily outperform the base SS 350cid as well as the SS396cid/325hp and generally had no problem with the SS 396/350, the only one that was a close match up was the SS 396/375 and often that was determined by which driver was better. You can find lots of documentation of ETs and trap speeds that back up that statement as well as my experience owning a new Z/28 in '69 and hundreds of other Z/28 and SS owners from back in the day. Not berating you, only trying to correct the information presented.
What we think will be the new Z/28 does not fit in with my personal preferences (I'd like to see a more heritage oriented version), but we'll get whatever Chevy decides we'll get. A new ZL1 version? Could be a good thing, I don't expect one, but who knows.
Clyde

Clyde