HPDE mods

[ZWA SS]

I went once last year (Hallet) and now I'm hooked. I would like to know what my next mod money should go towards.
Mods thus far are: cold air intake, lt headers and tune, HPS brake pads, subframe connectors, and rear trailing arms.
Oe polished wheels and general gmax tires.
My car is also a daily driver so it pulls double duty.

Specific bushings or kits? Sway bars?

[TBone]

BRAKES,BRAKES, BRAKES!!!!!

Look, I say this EVERY TIME someone asks this question and for good reason. The car, you can learn as you get faster and add more things to make you faster. But for pure safety reason never neglect your brakes each and every time.

This is one of the reasons why I wish we had a separate Drag and HPDE/AutoX area. Anyway....

Here are the absolute basics you MUST have to get on a track, IMO....

Dot 4 fluid (Motul 600, etc.)
Stainless Steel brake line (Goodridge)
Track Pads (Cobalt Friction, Carbotech)
I am forgetting something.....

The stuff in the (**) are just suggestions of brands of the type of thing listed.

There are MULTIPLE threads that talk about track pads. Please search them out and learn about track pads. They are very different than street pads but bottom line...

When on a track, use track pads.... when on the street, use street pads. It will make you and your car safer for you and those around you.

Otherwise your car has a pretty good foundation to start except your tires. But again, go out the first few times and LEARN. Once you do you will have the education to answer this question yourself for your driving style and the tracks near you. Besides, at this point all of the suspension companies are dropping like flies so who knows what to recommend, lol.(What, too soon?)

T.

[JOHNSONROD]

dang rite TBONE!!!!! he is right. the first thing these cars need is bigger brakes. you can get by with race pads on the stock rotors but just plan on getting the CTS-V package. heck, research it and order the parts yourself if you want to save a dime. or just call JPD and get the kit i got. the experts in the sport say . . . spend your money on safety and brakes and handling. if your not driving the car on the floor all the time, more HP is not going to do you any good. i wish you could see me run up on lighter faster cars just because i can out brake them. the feeling of uncertainty on the brakes will kill your good time. the confidence of knowing it will stop every time allows you to focus on other things like hitting your marks and keeping the car online. also spend money on seat time. an average SCCA or NASA racer can out drive the average joe in a miata so spend 50 percent of your budget on seat time. good luck.

[ZWA SS]

Thanks guys.
I upgraded to the dot 4 amsoil last year when I went. I'll search dedicated track pads. I would like to upgrade my wheel/tire package but as I'm just learning and limited budget these have to work. Seat time is what I hope to get this year. As often as I can. Maybe try some autocoss as well.

[SPCBA]

all the fluids (trans, engine, coolant, diff) should be better than oem...
as tbone says very elegantly track pads for track...its a safety and performance increase. the various accoutrements like lines as well

also your tires are horrible

[blk96gt]

The only thing you should do right now is make sure you have a good DOT4 brake fluid fluid (Motul RBF or Costrol SRF) and a decent set of pads. Why people think you need to go to the CTS-V setup within the first couple track days is beyond me. Learn to drive the car as it is. Once you get a few track days under your belt, you will start to realize what the car actually needs, and you can start replacing parts as you reach the limit.

Some of these posts on here remind me of the dude I saw a couple weeks ago at the track with the 2013 GT-500. R-comps, suspension and engine mods, BBK, etc. He is running 6 seconds slower then I was in my '11 SS with nothing but pfadt sways and Hawk HP+ pads on my second track day. This guy has 4-5 weekends and was talking about needing to do some more mods. My race car is a '96 Mustang GT with 266RWHP, roll cage, basically stock suspension, and 3300lbs, and he's 12 seconds slower than that, with a vastly superior car.

Focus on driving what you have now, and if you have a good brake fluid and pad you should have nothing to worry about this early on in your performance driving career. Heck, I still run the Cobra brake setup on the front and the stock GT setup on the rear of my race car, and my lap times are generally top 4 in our class. If you go to the Mustang message boards they insist you have a BBK to track the 94-04 Mustangs, but there are a number of us that just run the Cobra front/GT rear setup without issues.

I notice you're in Oklahoma, any chance you would make it down to the NASA Texas race at Texas World Speedway April 26-27? That may be a bit of a haul for you, but that track is a blast and NASA is a great group to run with and they have a good HPDE program. NASA has a regional cross-over event at Hallet in June as well which I will probably be at, so hit me up if you decide to do HPDE at that event.

[JOHNSONROD]

if our cars weighed 3300 pounds, they wouldnt need bigger brakes. i wore out a set of hawks in two days at VIR and was not comfortable on the brakes at all. now pads last several weekends and i dont worry about stopping at all. that alone is worth the price to me, not to mention what i save on pads now. anyone who drives one with big brakes sees the difference. it is the single best mod i have done by far.
i agree that he doenst have to get other brakes at first. seat time is more important at first. he may decide tracking is not what he wants to do and he wont have to spend that money. he may run tracks that arent real hard on brakes. most of the tracks i run are hard on brakes.
i stand by my advice to the op and i meant it sincerely.

[blk96gt]

What Hawk pads were they? How much seat time did you have when you "wore out" as set of pads? What do you mean by wore out? Were they worn down to the backing plate?

Those cars weigh 4,000 pounds and they don't need bigger brakes, at least not at this stage.

As I said, you get a GOOD set of pads and DOT4 fluid and the brakes will be fine. See this thread below for some good information about brakes for these cars.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329855

EDIT: Forgot to add SS brake lines are a good idea.

[ZWA SS]

Thanks blk96gt.
April 26/27 I have vacaction planned already, but in June I may make it over to meet up. Whats the date you'll be at Hallet?

[TBone]

Look guys, the OP asked for the BASICS to get his car ready for HPDE. I gave him that and that will last him for many years.

Johnson, yes, if he gets into HPDE and wants to brake faster and save money on pads the CTS-V/ZL1 upgrade is recommended. But he does not need that right away. I am currently considering this and hoses to cool them or my stock setup. BTW, get rid of your Hawks and upgrade to what I recommend above and you will see a noticeable improvement in your ontrack braking abilities.

But, blkgt brings up valid points as well. As long as you can get your car and pads into ABS then you have a quality setup for the track. What he may not realize, and I can attest to, is that the faster you get and harder you are on the brakes with these heavy cars, the faster you burn through the pads. I my self burn through a set of Cobalt Friction XR-1's in one day. And yes they are worn down enough so that they would never pass tech for another event. They barely get me home from the track.

OP, Time spent on track is addictive. If you plan on doing more than one a year follow SPCBA(Blake)'s advice and upgrade your fluids as well. Preventive maintenance is the second step in maintaining your cars life when tracking it. Plus it will just run better.

T.

AND WELCOME TO OUR OWN SEPARATE TRACK SECTION!!!! WOOOO HOOOO

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by ZWA SS

I went once last year (Hallet) and now I'm hooked. I would like to know what my next mod money should go towards.
Mods thus far are: cold air intake, lt headers and tune, HPS brake pads, subframe connectors, and rear trailing arms.
Oe polished wheels and general gmax tires.
My car is also a daily driver so it pulls double duty.

Specific bushings or kits? Sway bars?

Like many people have already mentioned, better pads and better fluid.

HPS pads are performance street pads that would be good up to autocross but aren't really suited to track sessions. It *may* be possible to "get by" with them if you're intentionally running conservatively enough and there aren't many people on track in your sessions, but I sure as hell won't recommend this approach. Never mind that after running an entry-level track pad such as Hawk's HP+ or Carbotech's XP8 you probably won't like HPS as much any more even for street stopping (you'll just have to take my word for it until you make a few stops with better pads).

ATE amber is another decent DOT4 brake fluid.

If I were you, I'd try to forget all about the power mods that you have done other than for whatever its octane requirement might be - and you should probably use the best unleaded pump gas you can find since coolant and inlet air temps will be up above where your normal driving puts them. Hopefully that tune isn't too aggressive about tipping the throttle plate open with small pedal motions else you'll have to remember (pound it through your skull?) to go easy with the throttle on corner exit as you start getting faster.

Likewise, forget about doing any more chassis and suspension mods. You're trying to learn how to properly drive hard over an extended length of time (compared to a run through an Interstate entrance or exit ramp, for instance), and trying to learn how a slightly different car behaves out closer to your limits at the same time is only going to get in your way. More bushings swapped out for something firmer will eventually help, but for now they're only going to make things happen faster and with less warning, and a more sudden at-speed transition to oversteer is not on the list of good things to be experiencing at this point.

I'd say after brakes and assuming you stay hooked, wider wheels with better tires and probably shocks & struts should be the next places to look. Even if you keep the OE springs, there will be an improvement from upgrading the dampers. The fly in the ointment right now is that neither Pedders nor Pfadt are available, Pfadt having closed its doors sometime in just the last couple of days.


Norm

[TBone]

NORM!!!!!!



Welcome Brother!!!!

T.

[toehead93]

As mentioned start with brakes. At least pads and HPS pads is not a track upgrade. Get track pads or the CTS-V brakes, see my sig I had a 2010 with the power botls on and coilovers but it needed sway bars to feel balanced. Look into these too, to save money you can get ZL1 or 1LE swaybars.

Also mentioned above the CTS-V brakes may be overkill right now but once you become more comfortable on the track you may want to upgrade then.

[ZWA SS]

What track pads would you recommend? Hawk hp+ I saw mentioned as entry level track pad.
Last year I flushed OE fluid it amsoil dot4, iPhone does that compare to the Motul 600?

Thanks for the help lining me out. I appreciate the help and knowledge.