*&(ked up transmission/clutch - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

HadMatter · 01-30-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by summitss/rsls3

thats kinda what i wanted to hear, im glad there are other people out there that can admit that they've missed a gear. if you havent you haven't driven a sports car to its full potential. And considering my brother used to work at the dealership i got it from and still stops in weekly to BS with the techs im hoping that i dont have a problem with warranty. Thanks guys!

You shouldn't have any issues at all. I took car in with complaints about the tranny syncros having issues and they didn't bat an eye or ask me any questions about how I drive it. Need to remember that GM has been advertising their warranty all over and been flogging their dealers to make sure that all customers are 100% satisfied.. sure, there are occasional dealers that are a bit shady, but if they give you issues just take it to another dealer that is willing to work to earn your repeat business.

I've been driving new GM products at least the last 4-5 years, and of the times I've had to take them in to several different dealers around here, I've never had a one give me any issues about honoring the warranty.

summitss/rsls3 · 01-30-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadMatter

You shouldn't have any issues at all. I took car in with complaints about the tranny syncros having issues and they didn't bat an eye or ask me any questions about how I drive it. Need to remember that GM has been advertising their warranty all over and been flogging their dealers to make sure that all customers are 100% satisfied.. sure, there are occasional dealers that are a bit shady, but if they give you issues just take it to another dealer that is willing to work to earn your repeat business.

I've been driving new GM products at least the last 4-5 years, and of the times I've had to take them in to several different dealers around here, I've never had a one give me any issues about honoring the warranty.

thats the way it should be, a warranty is a warranty. if you dont want to have warranty issues build something that will take the kind of abuse that they know the car is going to be put through.

Dutchman427 · 01-30-2010, 10:36 PM

Honestly, right now...these dealers just want the work. It doesnt matter if they are making only 40% profit on warranty work.

Russell James · 01-30-2010, 10:45 PM

Watch your hand position when shifting. Keep an open palm and push the shifter with a slight hesitation in the center allowing it to center under 3rd. The biggest mistake most make is grabbing the shifter like a baseball and manhandling it. That was for old Muncie Rockrushers.

For the 2 -3 push the shifter up with an open palm (fingers pointing at the windshield, when you feel it center behind 3rd then continue pushing up.
For 3-4 open palm with your palm facing the passenger door and thumb down, pull straight back. On this 3-4 if you grab it on top or the right side of the shift ball with a baseball grip and yank it back. Your arm naturally pulls back toward your body and easy to grab 2nd instead.

Practice open palm shifting and slowly make the moves quicker but remaining smooth.

Sounds like it may have bent some shift forks and jammed into 2 gears at once. Lucky it didn't scramble the engine. If it would have gone into 1st after winding out 2nd, that often causes all kinds of engine damage with bent pushrods and valves kissing pistons.

I saw a new Corvette once at the dragstrip do a 3 to 2 wide open shift at about 100 mph. He was trying to speed shift 4th with a gorilla grip on the shifter. Zinged the motor, wheel hopped the rear diff so bad the diff case was cracked, the rear wheels bouncing like basketballs turned the car 90 degrees in a split second - nosed it into the wall. Tore up the engine, rear differential, and shortened the nose of the car about 2 feet from one missed shift.

As long as your wheel wells aren't full of melted rubber and dial in times written on your windows, I doubt you'll have any problem getting it repaired under warranty. Just tell them you went for third gear and everything locked up.

They probably will find bent shift forks. I've seen that before where a shifter is forced between two gears and bends the shift forks. Now where the forks ride, it might be pushing against the gear instead of being centered over it causing noise.

Might get lucky and all it needs is shift forks. I wouldn't drive it much until it gets fixed.

summitss/rsls3 · 01-30-2010, 11:02 PM

thanks russelljames thats what i was hoping to hear. its exactly what i thought. as far as the shifting the way u explained is perfect and is exactly how i do it, but for some reason this time something just didnt work out for me. as far as the clutch smoke i bet it will almost need attention too seeing how it filled the inside of the car with the most ungodful smell. that smell was a first for me and i dont want to ever smell it again. after this all happened and all i could get was 4th gear for a short time i think the clutch was half engaged and was slipping something terrible. I guess we'll see what the dealership comes up with. i just hope they replace everything that could possibly have had anything to do with this.

Russell James · 01-31-2010, 11:21 AM

If the clutch was half engaged or didn't feel like the pedal returned all the way, that may have been the root cause of the issue. There is a bleeding procedure for the hydraulics or replacing the slave cylinder if bleeding doesn't fix it. If the clutch didn't disengage all the way during that 2-3 shift it may have bent the shift forks trying to force that shift without the clutch really disengaged all the way.

That would also explain why the clutch didn't feel right after for a while. If the clutch hydraulics stick like that, where the pedal doesn't feel right, the clutch is not going to be disengaging/engaging right until the slave cylinder gets the air out. That can make it slip for a bit.

If you were going through some hard launches and shifts before this happened, sometimes the heat can get to the brake fluid in the clutch slave cylinder. Then you get a weird a pedal feel and missed shifts with the clutch not working right.

Ask them to look at the bulletin for - clutch pedal sticks to the floor. May need that work done along with the trans fix. That bulletin has them bleed it, or replace the slave cylinder if needed.

They can inspect the clutch to see if it is damaged bad through an inspection area at the bottom. Often one good smoking doesn't do much damage, if it comes back to normal after a couple days of driving should be fine. If the clutch still doesn't feel right after a couple days of driving, it may have been cooked beyond recovery. But those are usually pretty obvious looking through the inspection area and test driving.

I'm going to revise my guess to - trans shift forks and clutch bleeding/slave cylinder.

summitss/rsls3 · 01-31-2010, 01:31 PM

very well put, after alot of research last nite, everthing you just said seems to be exactly right. i wonder if the slave cylinder line on these new camaros are restricted like the 4th gen. ones were. if so that could be a major cause of alot of clutch issues people are having with these cars.

summitss/rsls3 · 01-31-2010, 01:34 PM

i personall think the ls7 clutch we have in these cars is more than enough to handle what is being thrown at it, but if it isn't getting disengaged/engaged properly then it is surely going to have problems. i really hope someone figures out weather or not the hyd. system is the root of this problem.

summitss/rsls3 · 01-31-2010, 04:17 PM

well the rollback just got to my house to take it to to dealer. When i started it to back out of the garage i smelled like clutch bad, and when i pulled it around to the back of the towtruck i could feel the clutch slipping and my wife and brother said there was smoke coming from under to car. i'll keep everyone informed on what they find.

summitss/rsls3 · 02-03-2010, 08:54 PM

update, well my dealer tore the trans down and it looked like a bomb went off. Supriseingly the clutch and flywheel looked like new, i cant believe that after the smell that filled the interior but it was. The trans on the other hand was completely out. the main bearing on the input shaft let go and when it did it threw everything out of alignment. everything but 3 of the gears are trashed so now i guess its up to GM weather they are going to make the dealership rebuild the trans or send a new one out. Im hoping for the new tranny, but we will see. BTW mine is the 4th camaro they've had in the shop in the past 6 months with a trans related problem.

summitss/rsls3 · 02-04-2010, 09:35 PM

well the verdict is in, its going to get a new transmission. only bad thing is they wont get it till tuesday. Oh well at least it'll be new and not rebuilt.

ckaram · 02-05-2010, 05:40 AM

It blows my mind that such precise measures are needed to move a 400-horse car from 2nd to 3rd gear "open palm, fingers facing windshield", etc.

I have the lowly 300-horse version of the car and I just move the shifter into 3rd and all other gears. I don't think about its "placement". This includes when I run the revs up to 6 grand.

On my 68 Camaro with Hurst shifted-Muncie trans, you do have to "drive the H pattern" from 2nd to 3rd, but it seems nuts that shifting precision is needed in 2010.

I gotta drive one of the SS cars and see what's up. I suspect it's isolated cars and not a case of how you place the shift lever gear-to-gear in an SS Camaro.

LSxCamaro5 · 02-05-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by summitss/rsls3

i personall think the ls7 clutch we have in these cars is more than enough to handle what is being thrown at it, but if it isn't getting disengaged/engaged properly then it is surely going to have problems. i really hope someone figures out weather or not the hyd. system is the root of this problem.

I think you may have been a little mislead on these clutches. These Cars Do NOT have a LS7 clutch. They have an LS3 Clutch!! The LS7 T56 design clutch wouldn't even work in the 2010 TR6060 Camaro's due to the hydraulic system of the Master slaves Adjustments being completely Different!! With that said the LS3 Clutch Does have A close to the same Clamping pressure as the LS7.

But dont go thinking your ls3 clutch is capable of 520 RWHP w/ Dr's just because C6Z's run at the strip on that power with the Stock Unit. The Camaro Weighs about 700 Lbs More than the Z06!! Which has a Huge play on how much power the Clutch can Withstand!!

Take the GTO guys for instance. Alot of them switched to the LS7 Clutch and started having problems with the clutch slipping at around 460 Whp. (Stock whp for a C6Z) But their cars weighed about 550 lbs more than the C6z. Which added alot of extra pressure on the unit!!

I believe the "LS3" Clutch can hold plenty for normal driving, Spirted Pull ever so often of course, But i wouldnt recommend a good set of DR's and Dig Runs/Strip passes with anything more than 450 whp or the LS3 clutch might just go up in smoke!!!

For My Camaro i think im going to go with the LS9 (ZR1/CTS-V) unit that lingenfelter sells. This being a Dual Disk setup with great street manners. I only wish they didnt charge an Arm and a leg for the Flywheel Kit (ZR1's have 9 bolt flywheel, Camaro has 6bolt flywheel)!!

summitss/rsls3 · 02-05-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSxCamaro5

I think you may have been a little mislead on these clutches. These Cars Do NOT have a LS7 clutch. They have an LS3 Clutch!! The LS7 T56 design clutch wouldn't even work in the 2010 TR6060 Camaro's due to the hydraulic system of the Master slaves Adjustments being completely Different!! With that said the LS3 Clutch Does have A close to the same Clamping pressure as the LS7.

But dont go thinking your ls3 clutch is capable of 520 RWHP w/ Dr's just because C6Z's run at the strip on that power with the Stock Unit. The Camaro Weighs about 700 Lbs More than the Z06!! Which has a Huge play on how much power the Clutch can Withstand!!

Take the GTO guys for instance. Alot of them switched to the LS7 Clutch and started having problems with the clutch slipping at around 460 Whp. (Stock whp for a C6Z) But their cars weighed about 550 lbs more than the C6z. Which added alot of extra pressure on the unit!!

I believe the "LS3" Clutch can hold plenty for normal driving, Spirted Pull ever so often of course, But i wouldnt recommend a good set of DR's and Dig Runs/Strip passes with anything more than 450 whp or the LS3 clutch might just go up in smoke!!!

For My Camaro i think im going to go with the LS9 (ZR1/CTS-V) unit that lingenfelter sells. This being a Dual Disk setup with great street manners. I only wish they didnt charge an Arm and a leg for the Flywheel Kit (ZR1's have 9 bolt flywheel, Camaro has 6bolt flywheel)!!

Wow, thanks! thats some good info. Nice to see that the people around here know what they are talking about.

01-30-2010, 10:36 PM	#17
Dutchman427 Drives: 2012 ZL1 #1329 M6 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 1,040	Honestly, right now...these dealers just want the work. It doesnt matter if they are making only 40% profit on warranty work. __________________ 2012 Camaro ZL1 #1329 M6 Summit White Built by Mike @ Rapid Motorsports 784rwhp 757 rwtq on 93 Octane ET - 10.97 @ 128 Heads-Blower-Snout-TB ported & prepared by Jeremy Formato of FasterProms http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395950 Rapid Motorsports 396ci Build https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...1#post10321301 10.832 @ 130.99

02-05-2010, 05:40 AM	#26
ckaram Drives: 2011 2SS RS, 1968 ragtop Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,850	It blows my mind that such precise measures are needed to move a 400-horse car from 2nd to 3rd gear "open palm, fingers facing windshield", etc. I have the lowly 300-horse version of the car and I just move the shifter into 3rd and all other gears. I don't think about its "placement". This includes when I run the revs up to 6 grand. On my 68 Camaro with Hurst shifted-Muncie trans, you do have to "drive the H pattern" from 2nd to 3rd, but it seems nuts that shifting precision is needed in 2010. I gotta drive one of the SS cars and see what's up. I suspect it's isolated cars and not a case of how you place the shift lever gear-to-gear in an SS Camaro. __________________ 1968 Camaro Convertible LS1, T56 Last edited by ckaram; 02-05-2010 at 05:25 PM.

01-30-2010, 10:45 PM	#18
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	Watch your hand position when shifting. Keep an open palm and push the shifter with a slight hesitation in the center allowing it to center under 3rd. The biggest mistake most make is grabbing the shifter like a baseball and manhandling it. That was for old Muncie Rockrushers. For the 2 -3 push the shifter up with an open palm (fingers pointing at the windshield, when you feel it center behind 3rd then continue pushing up. For 3-4 open palm with your palm facing the passenger door and thumb down, pull straight back. On this 3-4 if you grab it on top or the right side of the shift ball with a baseball grip and yank it back. Your arm naturally pulls back toward your body and easy to grab 2nd instead. Practice open palm shifting and slowly make the moves quicker but remaining smooth. Sounds like it may have bent some shift forks and jammed into 2 gears at once. Lucky it didn't scramble the engine. If it would have gone into 1st after winding out 2nd, that often causes all kinds of engine damage with bent pushrods and valves kissing pistons. I saw a new Corvette once at the dragstrip do a 3 to 2 wide open shift at about 100 mph. He was trying to speed shift 4th with a gorilla grip on the shifter. Zinged the motor, wheel hopped the rear diff so bad the diff case was cracked, the rear wheels bouncing like basketballs turned the car 90 degrees in a split second - nosed it into the wall. Tore up the engine, rear differential, and shortened the nose of the car about 2 feet from one missed shift. As long as your wheel wells aren't full of melted rubber and dial in times written on your windows, I doubt you'll have any problem getting it repaired under warranty. Just tell them you went for third gear and everything locked up. They probably will find bent shift forks. I've seen that before where a shifter is forced between two gears and bends the shift forks. Now where the forks ride, it might be pushing against the gear instead of being centered over it causing noise. Might get lucky and all it needs is shift forks. I wouldn't drive it much until it gets fixed.

01-30-2010, 11:02 PM	#19
summitss/rsls3 Drives: summit white/IOM ss/rs ls3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Grand Island, Ne Posts: 556	thanks russelljames thats what i was hoping to hear. its exactly what i thought. as far as the shifting the way u explained is perfect and is exactly how i do it, but for some reason this time something just didnt work out for me. as far as the clutch smoke i bet it will almost need attention too seeing how it filled the inside of the car with the most ungodful smell. that smell was a first for me and i dont want to ever smell it again. after this all happened and all i could get was 4th gear for a short time i think the clutch was half engaged and was slipping something terrible. I guess we'll see what the dealership comes up with. i just hope they replace everything that could possibly have had anything to do with this.

01-31-2010, 11:21 AM	#20
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	If the clutch was half engaged or didn't feel like the pedal returned all the way, that may have been the root cause of the issue. There is a bleeding procedure for the hydraulics or replacing the slave cylinder if bleeding doesn't fix it. If the clutch didn't disengage all the way during that 2-3 shift it may have bent the shift forks trying to force that shift without the clutch really disengaged all the way. That would also explain why the clutch didn't feel right after for a while. If the clutch hydraulics stick like that, where the pedal doesn't feel right, the clutch is not going to be disengaging/engaging right until the slave cylinder gets the air out. That can make it slip for a bit. If you were going through some hard launches and shifts before this happened, sometimes the heat can get to the brake fluid in the clutch slave cylinder. Then you get a weird a pedal feel and missed shifts with the clutch not working right. Ask them to look at the bulletin for - clutch pedal sticks to the floor. May need that work done along with the trans fix. That bulletin has them bleed it, or replace the slave cylinder if needed. They can inspect the clutch to see if it is damaged bad through an inspection area at the bottom. Often one good smoking doesn't do much damage, if it comes back to normal after a couple days of driving should be fine. If the clutch still doesn't feel right after a couple days of driving, it may have been cooked beyond recovery. But those are usually pretty obvious looking through the inspection area and test driving. I'm going to revise my guess to - trans shift forks and clutch bleeding/slave cylinder.

01-31-2010, 01:31 PM	#21
summitss/rsls3 Drives: summit white/IOM ss/rs ls3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Grand Island, Ne Posts: 556	very well put, after alot of research last nite, everthing you just said seems to be exactly right. i wonder if the slave cylinder line on these new camaros are restricted like the 4th gen. ones were. if so that could be a major cause of alot of clutch issues people are having with these cars.

01-31-2010, 01:34 PM	#22
summitss/rsls3 Drives: summit white/IOM ss/rs ls3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Grand Island, Ne Posts: 556	i personall think the ls7 clutch we have in these cars is more than enough to handle what is being thrown at it, but if it isn't getting disengaged/engaged properly then it is surely going to have problems. i really hope someone figures out weather or not the hyd. system is the root of this problem.

01-31-2010, 04:17 PM	#23
summitss/rsls3 Drives: summit white/IOM ss/rs ls3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Grand Island, Ne Posts: 556	well the rollback just got to my house to take it to to dealer. When i started it to back out of the garage i smelled like clutch bad, and when i pulled it around to the back of the towtruck i could feel the clutch slipping and my wife and brother said there was smoke coming from under to car. i'll keep everyone informed on what they find.

02-03-2010, 08:54 PM	#24
summitss/rsls3 Drives: summit white/IOM ss/rs ls3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Grand Island, Ne Posts: 556	update, well my dealer tore the trans down and it looked like a bomb went off. Supriseingly the clutch and flywheel looked like new, i cant believe that after the smell that filled the interior but it was. The trans on the other hand was completely out. the main bearing on the input shaft let go and when it did it threw everything out of alignment. everything but 3 of the gears are trashed so now i guess its up to GM weather they are going to make the dealership rebuild the trans or send a new one out. Im hoping for the new tranny, but we will see. BTW mine is the 4th camaro they've had in the shop in the past 6 months with a trans related problem.

02-04-2010, 09:35 PM	#25
summitss/rsls3 Drives: summit white/IOM ss/rs ls3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Grand Island, Ne Posts: 556	well the verdict is in, its going to get a new transmission. only bad thing is they wont get it till tuesday. Oh well at least it'll be new and not rebuilt.