Anyone Remember the EV1

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

Thanks for the info, I was just trying to dumb it down little more. I'm no tech, but Toyota does hold several patents on components that are not covered by the licensing agreements and some of its shared components are bought by Ford and Nissan. I was trying to keep it basic and just make some quick references.

I was shock at how much I though I new and now am better informed. I wish GM would be more proactive and they really dropped the ball. Toyota is producing electric power rack and pinon and AC units on some of their cars now that all came from hybrid tech. Stuff like this could go a long way in fuel savings and add HP to any car and why Toyota seems to be killing everyone in auto sales in general.

GM had all that on the EV1, which pre-dates Toyotas hybrids. GM has many models which feature electric power steering

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

GM had all that on the EV1, which pre-dates Toyotas hybrids. GM has many models which feature electric power steering

I wish more research would be done before accusing GM of being "behind"...
...that flaming movie does nothing to progress that wish....

You'll find the Delta cars have...I think two accessories on the engine, total? A/C and alternator...everything else is electrically driven.

[GrnMchin]

I said that GM was behind the power curve an could be the industry leader they could have taken the tech and hit the home run we all want (if they were not behind why the losses in the billions ) ( why is Toyota knocking at the door for top sales). I known GM use some of this type of tech, but could use it more. This could even benefit the Camaro MPG. The Toyota is slow, but remember that's because the computer controls it to be more economical. Hybrid is not the end all be all, but is a better alternative in the future. The Prius motor creates 350 tq at 1 rpm. That why all train and big mining equipment use electric motors. If you doubt me check on U-tube search white zombie datsun. This guy is a little over the top, but the tech is sound.
P.S I have never seen the move and have done some research and if you think GM can't do better then I guess I'm wrong and all the data is a sham. I place my analysis on data not hear say.
You can bash me all you want I don't hate I own 5 cars, four are GM and none are hybrids. If you ask me I think a Hybrid diesel is the future in the next 10 yrs.
I like to play the devils advocate at times, but some time the # just don't add up and if you think I like to bash GM your dead wrong. I was the only one in the class that defended GM and the EV1. Ask the instructor we will remember the bald guy from Lacey Fire.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Whoa there, buddy....I hope it wasn't me who sparked that response, I didn't bash you!

There are a helluva lot of reasons why they were loosing money, and why toyota has grown so large...some, but not all of those reasons can be blamed on GM. And it's preposterous to say that GM doesn't use enough modern tech in their vehicles -- I guess that's why I took issue with. What can be said is that in certain instances, they don't use the advanced systems in the right places....for example, if I were GM, I would have invested in a car hybrid system along the lines of the Prius rather than the SUV/truck two-mode system....

Hybrids, however, have a limited future because they are stupid inefficient compared to alternatives. Why have two full drivetrains stuffed into the same car? Why does the prius still use those dirty batteries? This is precisely why the Volt, and subsequent Voltec cars will take off (or so I predict), because they are not hybrids, but REEVs (range-extended electric vehicles) -- and they are chalk full of some of the most advanced automotive technologies on the planet.

We can say all we want about their decisions in the past...and some criticisms I would be inclined to agree with...but I look forward, not back, to what can and will be. The future is bright...they've got stuff close to release that we never thought would make it out of their doors (and it wouldn't have 5 years ago).

[Chronomaro]

Movies like that are always propaganda. It was possible to recharge it with a quick charger in something like 2 hours. Nissan Leaf will be getting something like it, but it'll need it since it doesn't have a generator on board(seen nothing showing otherwise). I have no idea how they claim mpg numbers considering it has no fuel tank-and math doesn't count since that was just marketing. Volt to my knowledge is the only pure EV with a gas generator. Others are merely hybrids....which make no sense to me. Why do you need two drivetrains for a single vehicle?

Also, looked it up, and no evidence points to the Prius having any more than 153 torque from the electric motor. Combustion one makes just 105. They just are packing too much in the car for it to excel at any one thing. Driving like you own a Prius, even if its an M3 yields better milage-I love that Top Gear episode.

I do remember that there was a EV in the 30s...I think. It was a flatbed truck full of batteries on the underside that would go something like 5 miles on a charge, lol. Don't know if it was a company's or custom, and I know there were some earlier than that.

VW has overtaken Toyota as the largest, btw. Their answer? Diesel. 67 mpg from a Lupo, hehe. And Toyota is about to have serious issues if the class action lawsuit over unintended acceleration shows up all over the news. No way to hide that publicity.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Chronomaro

VW has overtaken Toyota as the largest, btw.

GM is still the world's largest automaker in terms of production.

[Chronomaro]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM is still the world's largest automaker in terms of production.

Production for the first nine months of 2009-
4.4 mil VW
4.0 mil Toyota
3.7 mil Ford
3.6 mil GM

And yes, this is just production. Not sales. You can check auto news anywhere if you don't believe me.

Also its been a fluky year with the recession, cash for clunkers, etc.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Chronomaro

Production for the first nine months of 2009-
4.4 mil VW
4.0 mil Toyota
3.7 mil Ford
3.6 mil GM

And yes, this is just production. Not sales. You can check auto news anywhere if you don't believe me.

Also its been a fluky year with the recession, cash for clunkers, etc.

Regardless of the truth of this...sales numbers is what matters....both because that's where the money comes from, and because otherwise they're just filling up inventory....not smart.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Chronomaro

Production for the first nine months of 2009-
4.4 mil VW
4.0 mil Toyota
3.7 mil Ford
3.6 mil GM

And yes, this is just production. Not sales. You can check auto news anywhere if you don't believe me.

Also its been a fluky year with the recession, cash for clunkers, etc.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...duction-85993/

Those figures you posted don't count production numbers from JVs that GM is involved in. GM has produced over 4.5 million vehicles as of the 3rd quarter.

[nova]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

This is precisely why the Volt, and subsequent Voltec cars will take off (or so I predict), because they are not hybrids, but REEVs (range-extended electric vehicles) --

Isn't that just a matter of semantics though?

The way I've understood the difference between the existing systems like the Prius and the Volt is that the Prius and similar are parallel hybrids and the Volt is a serial hybrid, similar to the system used in Diesel-electric trains.

All are hybrids, just different types of hybrids.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by nova

Isn't that just a matter of semantics though?

The way I've understood the difference between the existing systems like the Prius and the Volt is that the Prius and similar are parallel hybrids and the Volt is a serial hybrid, similar to the system used in Diesel-electric trains.

All are hybrids, just different types of hybrids.

I suppose. I think it's not so much semantics, as it is perception of the systems.

There's a case to be argued either way. As I know the terminology, a hybrid is a vehicle that employs two distinct drivetrains. Traditionally, one mechanical and one electric. So, with this in mind, I look at the Volt, and the only thing that ever powers the wheels are its electric motors. That's not a hybrid as far as I'm concerned.

The energy created to supply those motors, however, comes from different sources -- but the same principal applies to a flex-fuel vehicle...

The term series hybrid came from the need to classify different "green" vehicles, while still relating them all as hybrids. "REEV" and "series hybrid" really mean the same thing. I use REEV, because I think it fits better, that's all.

[FenwickHockey65]

While we're discussing semantics, the proper term for the Volt/Converj is actually E-REV...

[GrnMchin]

I will clear up some info. The electric motor in the Prius is capable of 350 tq, but is limited to 153. My info comes from a Toyota master Tech who explained the nut a bolt of what the motor is capable of. So yes this might be a little suspect, because I taking him at his word. He knows way more about electric cars the I would ever want to know or can fully understand. So maybe BS and will call it on myself as well.

Yes I think the hybrid tech in current form is not as efficient is the claims, but the internal combustion engine also started in a similar fashion. This could lead nowhere or help jump start the next best thing in auto tech. As I look back in history, many people though the horseless carriage was dangerous with it's exploding motor, expensive, and hard to drive and not as efficient as horses.

Not saying GM is all bad or not improving, but would like to see some more advances in the future in key areas like Dragoneye said.

Did not mean to say that anyone was bashing me, but understand some are very quick to discount anything that may not be in line with their views. The movie is what it is and if anything should make you think what if ,even if you don't agree. Always two sides to the story so take with a grain of salt not all this was BS and should just give you some food for thought. My bad and didn't mean to call anyone out my apologies.

Im no hybrid fan boy and far from it, I do understand that alternatives fueled vehicles do have a place to help ease oil dependency that has the ability to negatively effect the US economy at any given moment. I looking forward to the Volt and it's future development as my next car. I hope it's not to late an the cost is not to high this can be key to GM in the future. The hybrid concept does seem to be gaining ground besides the auto industry Cat has dozers now (not just the largest D series), citys buses and semi trucks are using this type of tech that was not seen in this type of equipment 10 yrs ago.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

While we're discussing semantics, the proper term for the Volt/Converj is actually E-REV...

My bad. Thanks Fen!

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

....citys buses....

It's all good, my friend!

I'm glad you brought this up, by the way....those buses are the result of an initiative undertaken by the public transportation system and GM.

This truly is a remarkable article:
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives...ybrid_bus.html

Riding one of these buses is similarly efficient to riding a bike...