Shno's House of Z

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The LT1 1LE would have to over come a 70+ hp disadvantage. That would be embarrassing for Ford if it was faster than the GT350.

Well we did it as the heavier less powerful car compared to the Boss so I don't see why not. We look to be the lighter car this time around so it's still possible.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Well we did it as the heavier less powerful car compared to the Boss so I don't see why not. We look to be the lighter car this time around so it's still possible.

The 1LE was faster than the GT500 around the Milford road course. And that car had 650hp, or some crazy amount. When it comes to road course and actual track driving...hp means much less than other factors.

[Bhobbs]

The GT350 is a whole different animal from the BOSS 302 and GT500.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The GT350 is a whole different animal from the BOSS 302 and GT500.

I'm sure it is. It doesn't mean Chevy can't beat it with a little superior engineering like they did last time.

Here's my opinion, now that we know what we know about the new car....

• Ford is playing around with a new IRS-based Mustang. It will take some time to nail down...it took Camaro team about 2 years to really dial it in, and they have one of the most awesome road courses right in their backyard...
  
• In terms of track times, which is my chosen metric...Ford's best (last generation) couldn't supersede the 1LE from Camaro team. Then there was the ZL1, and then the Z/28.
  
• The new Mustang GT is still bested by the "old" SS/1LE. You'd have thought Ford would attempt to reach a certain impressive benchmark with such a dramatic overhaul of their car...no, instead - it got bigger, and heavier, and did not get even as fast as the lowest performance barrier put in place by Camaro team.
  
• The new Camaro, by contrast, has gotten slightly smaller, significantly lighter...and incredibly more dialed in. Weight aside - the car FEELS fantastic in terms of responsiveness. I've only driven the V6, but around bends and through the wheel/pedals, it felt like my 1LE. (obviously not in terms of raw speed) I can't imagine what the SS will drive like.
  
• I haven't driven them...I should...but I'll bet the Mustang V6, and 4 feel like marshmellows compared to the new Camaro.
  
• Finally...the new SS is already faster than the outgoing 1LE. This, with significantly less tire. It uses a less aggressive compounds and skinnier tire than the supercar F1 Eagles.
  
• Chevy, presumably...(going out on a limb, here)...still has yet to reveal a 1LE replacement, a ZL1 replacement, and perhaps even a Z/28 replacement. Furthermore, Chevy is cocky...they're never publicly cocky unless they know something we don't. Al knew the 2014/2015 GT500 wasn't going to be a real threat...and he said so...and he was right. We'd be foolish to assume they weren't paying close attention to the GT350...and they're still brash about how much better the Camaro is, unilaterally. I think there are some crazy-impressive things coming down the pipe.

This new GT350 may be fast, focused, and impressive...but I will confidently risk sticking my foot in my mouth by saying that I believe 100% Chevy will build something faster. I would wager that the Camaro SS might even be as fast, or faster than a base GT350.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I'm sure it is. It doesn't mean Chevy can't beat it with a little superior engineering like they did last time.

Here's my opinion, now that we know what we know about the new car....

• Ford is playing around with a new IRS-based Mustang. It will take some time to nail down...it took Camaro team about 2 years to really dial it in, and they have one of the most awesome road courses right in their backyard...
  
• In terms of track times, which is my chosen metric...Ford's best (last generation) couldn't supersede the 1LE from Camaro team. Then there was the ZL1, and then the Z/28.
  
• The new Mustang GT is still bested by the "old" SS/1LE. You'd have thought Ford would attempt to reach a certain impressive benchmark with such a dramatic overhaul of their car...no, instead - it got bigger, and heavier, and did not get even as fast as the lowest performance barrier put in place by Camaro team.
  
• The new Camaro, by contrast, has gotten slightly smaller, significantly lighter...and incredibly more dialed in. Weight aside - the car FEELS fantastic in terms of responsiveness. I've only driven the V6, but around bends and through the wheel/pedals, it felt like my 1LE. (obviously not in terms of raw speed) I can't imagine what the SS will drive like.
  
• I haven't driven them...I should...but I'll bet the Mustang V6, and 4 feel like marshmellows compared to the new Camaro.
  
• Finally...the new SS is already faster than the outgoing 1LE. This, with significantly less tire. It uses a less aggressive compounds and skinnier tire than the supercar F1 Eagles.
  
• Chevy, presumably...(going out on a limb, here)...still has yet to reveal a 1LE replacement, a ZL1 replacement, and perhaps even a Z/28 replacement. Furthermore, Chevy is cocky...they're never publicly cocky unless they know something we don't. Al knew the 2014/2015 GT500 wasn't going to be a real threat...and he said so...and he was right. We'd be foolish to assume they weren't paying close attention to the GT350...and they're still brash about how much better the Camaro is, unilaterally. I think there are some crazy-impressive things coming down the pipe.

This new GT350 may be fast, focused, and impressive...but I will confidently risk sticking my foot in my mouth by saying that I believe 100% Chevy will build something faster. I would wager that the Camaro SS might even be as fast, or faster than a base GT350.

Cogently stated as always. I am on the same page with you.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

This new GT350 may be fast, focused, and impressive...but I will confidently risk sticking my foot in my mouth by saying that I believe 100% Chevy will build something faster. I would wager that the Camaro SS might even be as fast, or faster than a base GT350.

I haven't driven the 6th gen so I cannot comment on that. However the fact that GM has stated that the new SS is faster around the track than the 5th gen 1LE says a lot right there and like you said, the new Mustang GT PP can't even best the OLD 1LE. I think in the Mustang GT vs Camaro SS, the Camaro will blow the Mustang out of the water in terms of performance.

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I really do think the new Mustang GT350 & GT350R is going to be a huge threat. I fully anticipate the GT350R to be able to take down the Z/28. Until we see numbers on the GT350R it is pure speculation. However on paper it looks nasty. Ford has confirmed that it will have at least 100hp/Liter. So that means it is going to have at least 520 hp (more than the LS7). It is going to weigh less than the Z/28, it is going to rev much higher than the Z/28, it has some meaty tires but still not as wide as the Z/28 up front (295 vs. 305) but still big. It may not have as sticky tires but they aren't bad either. The only thing that is in question is the chassis tuning of the Mustang. In my opinion this is Fords battle to lose, in regards to the old Z/28 vs. GT350R.

While I would love to see some sort of Halo engine in play I'm not sure how likely that is going to happen. So we may be stuck with a variation of the LT1, perhaps similar to what Ford did with the Boss 302 LS. If that's the case, I could see an LT1 variation in the 475-485 range, while still obviously down on power GM may be able to make that up with better chassis tuning. Much like they did with the 1LE vs GT and ZL1 vs GT500.

Time will tell.

[Number 3]

Ok let's start a poll for the first thread to be accessed via camaro5.com AND camor6.com.

Who's with me?

[Scarrzz]

That's a capital idea.

Motion seconded, 3.


I have a bookmark for the thread, but it would be better to have it accessible from either site.

[PYROLYSIS]

Would that require a 6th gen Z/28 section?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Would that require a 6th gen Z/28 section?

And that is most certainly bound to happen.

Remember this thread started years before the Z/28

[Bhobbs]

GT350 starts at $47k. R at $61k.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

And that is most certainly bound to happen.

Remember this thread started years before the Z/28

Yep, makes sense to me.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GT350 starts at $47k. R at $61k.

I assume you are quoting an official announcement. Those are some very intriguing prices.......maybe set based on an announcement last weekend.

[RSZ]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GT350 starts at $47k. R at $61k.

Is that official? Didn't think the MSRP was released by FMC. That would be a bargain!