rwhp Verse Crank HP

[BoostedX2]

Has anyone definitively come up with a drivetrain loss % for the 2010 Camaro LS3? Thanks for your help!!

T

[GeorgeM]

Originally Posted by Mr T

Has anyone definitively come up with a drivetrain loss % for the 2010 Camaro LS3? Thanks for your help!!

T

Drivetrain loss is about 10% on the LS3 and close to 15% on the L99. Automatics always experienced a higher loss due to the torque converter and transmission internals.

GeorgeM

[2010 2-Tone]

I think it is more than 10% on manuals, at least on mine it was.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

From what I have see the LS3 is about 13 to 15% and the L99 is 20%

[Dave Coyle]

Yes, the 15% on sticks and 20% on autos is more close.

[VTXrider]

This number is not really possible to arrive at unless you dyno the same engine at the crank and at the wheels. Even then the number would change for each car slightly.

426 bhp is not the actual horsepower for any LS3 except by coincidence, this is something of an average of what the engine is expected to produce. This is evidenced by the change in bhp of the v6 from 2010 (304 bhp?) to 2011 (312 bhp?) where gm stated that there was no difference in the actual power only that they used the SAE formula to arrive at the 2011 bhp and a different formula for 2010.

There for if your car dynos at 380 rwhp this may look like a 10.8% loss to the drive train but in fact you do not know the actual crank hp. I would not be surprised if LS3s ranged from 410-440 horsepower at the crank. This may look like a large difference but keep in mind it is only a 3.5% variation from stated.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by VTXrider

This number is not really possible to arrive at unless you dyno the same engine at the crank and at the wheels. Even then the number would change for each car slightly.

426 bhp is not the actual horsepower for any LS3 except by coincidence, this is something of an average of what the engine is expected to produce. This is evidenced by the change in bhp of the v6 from 2010 (304 bhp?) to 2011 (312 bhp?) where gm stated that there was no difference in the actual power only that they used the SAE formula to arrive at the 2011 bhp and a different formula for 2010.

There for if your car dynos at 380 rwhp this may look like a 10.8% loss to the drive train but in fact you do not know the actual crank hp. I would not be surprised if LS3s ranged from 410-440 horsepower at the crank. This may look like a large difference but keep in mind it is only a 3.5% variation from stated.

Could be right, look at the ranges on l99's 310-330 or so and V6 anywhere from 230-250 for a6.But also is different dynos and temps account for alot of it I would think. Also engine fully broken in usually makes more but is that above the factory # or to make the factory #?
Anyway I have always heard about 15% on M6 and 20% on the auto, on a Dynojet.

[DGthe3]

Its been a while since I looked but the LS3 Camaros seem to have approximately 14% driveline loss (+/- 1%). The L99 cars are around 17% loss.

Its not that hard to figure out. Look at as many stock dyno runs as you can. You should get an idea about whats normal, sure there will be a few runs that are low and a couple that are high but most should read about the same, to within about a 10 hp range. To figure out the loss, use the following formula:

(1-rwhp/crank hp) x 100%

So, lets say an LS3 car dyno'd 368 at the wheel. (1-368/426) x 100% = 13.6% loss. Now, this isn't perfect because it assumes that the engine is making what it is advertised as. But most SAE rated engines should deliver as promised while a lucky few will probably give a bit more. They won't deliver less than advertised unless there is something wrong (like reading from the wrong fuel table)

[Crowley]

most shops will say aruond 15% loss on the LS3 (manual).

Crowley

[v6sonoma]

Originally Posted by VTXrider

This number is not really possible to arrive at unless you dyno the same engine at the crank and at the wheels. Even then the number would change for each car slightly.

426 bhp is not the actual horsepower for any LS3 except by coincidence, this is something of an average of what the engine is expected to produce. This is evidenced by the change in bhp of the v6 from 2010 (304 bhp?) to 2011 (312 bhp?) where gm stated that there was no difference in the actual power only that they used the SAE formula to arrive at the 2011 bhp and a different formula for 2010.

There for if your car dynos at 380 rwhp this may look like a 10.8% loss to the drive train but in fact you do not know the actual crank hp. I would not be surprised if LS3s ranged from 410-440 horsepower at the crank. This may look like a large difference but keep in mind it is only a 3.5% variation from stated.

The reason for the change was not due to a formula. It was because the engine had been certified in the CTS so they used it's numbers to save time/money. When they certified it officially in the Camaro it performed better due to the Camaros better flowing intake and exhaust.

[JonMan503]

id say around 14 on the LS3 from what I've seen

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

The reason for the change was not due to a formula. It was because the engine had been certified in the CTS so they used it's numbers to save time/money. When they certified it officially in the Camaro it performed better due to the Camaros better flowing intake and exhaust.

Correct. They didn't change anything in the engine between 2010 and 2011 model years, they knew it made more than 304 hp but didn't see a need to certify it for 2010. Looks like their bet payed off because Ford and Dodge used that as a mark for their new V6's, and GM then certifies their 3.6L for the Camaro for 2011.