Almost Traded for a 911 Turbo

[phenixdragon]

This past week I have been thinking real hard about trading in my SS for a 911 Turbo, 996 to be specific. Looking at the prices on these I learned they sell for less than 40K, even at a dealer and with pretty decent mileage. There are some things to look out for but for the most part, these cars are bullet proof. So yesterday and the day before I went up to a local dealer that had a 2002 911 Turbo in that was also gray. The exact year and color I want. I went in, talked to them, drove it a few times but the last time I drove it it really made me just like the Camaro so much better.

I always loved the 911 Turbos. Great performance from them but never actually drove one before. I mean I have driven a lot of powerful cars but never a Porsche. But when I drove it, I was pretty under impressed. The car has 415hp and 415tq. I know I can gain 100 more of each just by a tune and a few other minor things. Would costs about $1500, Than for about $3500 more I could be pushing about 600hp and 600tq. All safely on the stock motor. By far cheaper than it would take to get the Camaro up to that.

But the stock car numbers show being better in a every aspect over the Camaro because it is lighter and AWD. But when I drove it, I just didn't feel it. The Camaro seemed to be more powerful, better put together, just overall better. I was really disappointed in the 911. Maybe it is because the Camaro has such high natural torque that it felt like more power, but the 911 has AWD so it should be pulling better. To me it felt like an 03 Cobra (supercharged) and an 07 STi that I have driven. The STi has something like 80 less hp but that Cobra just pulled like a rocket. The STi posted better numbers though. Even the new Camaros I think feel weak for the power they have but that doesn't mean they are. Feeling is all relative and being that I mostly ride sport bikes a car will never give me butterflies. Not even a bike with 1000-12000cc can do that anymore.

I did like the leather in the 911. Everything was leather, and I liked that. But the 911 felt like an 8 year old car, at least when inside of it. It just felt like it was a daily driver for the past 8 years. It wasn't abused, just used which made me feel like the interior in the Camaro was nicer, and it's not that nice. But the 911 didn't even have intermittent wipers. A original MSRP of $115,000 doesn't have this? Kind of a downer, especially living in Seattle.

The dealer offered me 30K for the Camaro with my custom TSW 22" which are a 3 piece wheel that retails for around 3 grand per wheel. They wanted 40K for the 911. Way too low on the Camaro and way too high on the 911. I told them if they wanted a dealer to work they need to pay me 3 or 4 grand. Of course they said no.

I walked away loving the Camaro even more and wanting to do so much more to it. I think I am wanting to SC it more than wanting to TT it. I was wanting to TT it for awhile but after the 911, I am looking more at SC. I also am wanting to leather everything inside, including the dash. Which I am excited to do all of that. I can say I am still looking for a 911 Turbo, and if I can find a perfectly clean 996 Turbo I will buy it in a heart beat. There are plenty out there that pop up and I don't mind waiting. But if the wait is too long, well my Camaro is going to be modded even more and I probably will just keep the Camaro and buy a 911 Turbo in a couple of years. But overall the experience has made me appreciate and love the Camaro more than I use to.

[bumblebeecamaro]

get the Camaro. it sounds like it's a sronger built car. that and not to mention you'll have a warranty. that 8 year old Porsche will be a ticking time bomb. after all, it's 8 years old.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by bumblebeecamaro

get the Camaro. it sounds like it's a sronger built car. that and not to mention you'll have a warranty. that 8 year old Porsche will be a ticking time bomb. after all, it's 8 years old.

Actually I'v had the Camaro since March. Had I know the 911 Turbos were so cheap I would have boughten one instead. Knowing this now I am just more into it would be nice to have one, but after driving one I wasn't compelled to I gotta have one. Maybe it one pops up in perfect mint condition and I can get a deal worked out that I would trade the Camaro in.

I wouldn't say the 911 is a ticking time bomb though. They are very solid cars but some parts can be pricey while some others not so much. Like performance upgrades are cheap, but something like a hydraulic pump for the wing is almost $2,000. But just the overall feel of the car made me feel like this specific car is going to cost me money to make it showroom ready, which my Camaro is. I have had lots of 5.0s and others cars and spent time and money making them showroom quality again. Just kind of tired of that. It's nice having a brand new car that doesn't need any of that.

[stray bullitt]

I think Porsches were seen once as the pinnacle of sportiness without being monstrously expensive like Ferraris etc. These days though many cheaper cars have caught up with the power and handling of many Porches. The Scooby STi, and Mitsu EVO, are cases in point...4x4, lightweight bodies, and a base of 300bhp give the porsche a run for its money. I was surprised to see you could add another 100bhp onto a porche for only $1500 though. On the point of buying an older model Porsche, just make sure everything is warranted for at least a year. A friend of mine found out to the cost of $4000 how much a new exhaust system was, complete with heat exchangers. Things you don't worry about with a new Camaro. I'm still waiting for my Camaro to arrive, but there's no way I'd ever consider a Porsche.....they're so common anyway over here

[jesserayjames]

Smart decision.......................................... ................................................

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by stray bullitt

I think Porsches were seen once as the pinnacle of sportiness without being monstrously expensive like Ferraris etc. These days though many cheaper cars have caught up with the power and handling of many Porches. The Scooby STi, and Mitsu EVO, are cases in point...4x4, lightweight bodies, and a base of 300bhp give the porsche a run for its money. I was surprised to see you could add another 100bhp onto a porche for only $1500 though. On the point of buying an older model Porsche, just make sure everything is warranted for at least a year. A friend of mine found out to the cost of $4000 how much a new exhaust system was, complete with heat exchangers. Things you don't worry about with a new Camaro. I'm still waiting for my Camaro to arrive, but there's no way I'd ever consider a Porsche.....they're so common anyway over here

Ya, they are very common around Seattle too. I still see more 911 Turbos then Camaros. But you are right. At one point they use to be the pinnacle for a sports car. Maybe part of the reason why the prices just dropped on these is because they are more or less average now, or at least the 996s. 400hp stock isn't anything to brag about when Mustangs and Camaros have that now. Plus these cars aren't boats anymore, they do have handling.

I think part of the mark up on parts is that they are somewhat rare cars and so few parts are being sold for upgrades. It's like getting a tune is well over a grand but it gives you a lot of power. But with so little cars out there and finding someone who knows how to tune them properly, you are going to pay that money.

Top Gear was even talking about the Subarus being the only other open out there for flat motors. Basically called them Porsches without the price. I'd like to see the STi get a 100hp increase since the 911 Turbos (997) have 500hp stock. I do see that Subaru does have a larger motor now for at least the WRX but without a turbo and the STi having a turbo still runs on the smaller motor. I can see them turboing that newer larger motor in a few years and putting that in the STis. That's what they did with the current STis. They use to be a smaller motor with a turbo but then upped them to the larger motor found in other Subarus.

[ffrcobra_65]

glad to hear to kept the Camaro. No such thing as bullet proof. Let me tell u, you would have regretted getting the used Porsche at the first mechanical issue. You saved yourself a lot of stress and $ by keeping warrantied car and not trading to highly expensive car to maintain. I disagree that you found the camaro almost supreme in every way. Well, the feeling of performance....you are comparing practically a new car to a 8 year old one. Fit and finish, despite several years difference, a Porsche, BMW, Merc would still fare better over cheap domestic car interiors, period. The 911 Turbo was/is better in any performance scale you can think of, you just happened to sample one that probably wasn't well taken care of and the back of your mind, finding every possible flaw against it so you can justify keeping the Camaro which sounds like what you really wanna do anyway. Buy a used 911 to enjoy and get it outta your system but don't trade a good car for a money pit. Was at a Porsche Club breakfast meet this morning...beautiful cars for sure. I know a guy who just spend $15k on a rebuilt 911 Turbo engine...uninstalled!

[Saltyflats]

Porsche is the true sports car make no mistake. The 996 model 911's were crap and most in the Porsche community dont care for them. The 997 is where its at.
I almost bought an 07 Cayman S over the Camaro.
I've got a 1990 Carrera C2 in the garage.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

glad to hear to kept the Camaro. No such thing as bullet proof. Let me tell u, you would have regretted getting the used Porsche at the first mechanical issue. You saved yourself a lot of stress and $ by keeping warrantied car and not trading to highly expensive car to maintain. I disagree that you found the camaro almost supreme in every way. Well, the feeling of performance....you are comparing practically a new car to a 8 year old one. Fit and finish, despite several years difference, a Porsche, BMW, Merc would still fare better over cheap domestic car interiors, period. The 911 Turbo was/is better in any performance scale you can think of, you just happened to sample one that probably wasn't well taken care of and the back of your mind, finding every possible flaw against it so you can justify keeping the Camaro which sounds like what you really wanna do anyway. Buy a used 911 to enjoy and get it outta your system but don't trade a good car for a money pit. Was at a Porsche Club breakfast meet this morning...beautiful cars for sure. I know a guy who just spend $15k on a rebuilt 911 Turbo engine...uninstalled!

I use to own an ///M3, and other luxury cars and the Camaro is pretty good compared to 10 years ago. But actually I was looking for every reason to want to trade the Camaro in. I'm still looking for a 996 911 Turbo, maybe a 997 depending on price, just it has to be absolutely perfect. But it looks like with at least a 2002 911, it may have been top of the line interior 8 years ago, but today, it's not or at least didn't hold up well. But what I have been hearing is a lot of people say the 993 was way better in quality than the 996. Never been in a 993 so I can't judge myself. Don't get me wrong, it's still nice inside, but not $115,000 nice. But I even think the Camaro is missing a lot of features and small things.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by Saltyflats

Porsche is the true sports car make no mistake. The 996 model 911's were crap and most in the Porsche community dont care for them. The 997 is where its at.
I almost bought an 07 Cayman S over the Camaro.
I've got a 1990 Carrera C2 in the garage.

Never been in any others but I have heard even the 993s were better quality. I would go with a 997 but only if the price can be down to no higher than 40K. I'd even swing for a blown motor on a 997 and have it rebuilt. But what would worry me about that is how the rest of the car is because if there is a blow motor, or tranny, I suspect abuse. And the 997s have 500hp, or at least new ones.

But we'll see. I just didn't feel compelled to want to trade the SS in for it. I just wasn't blown away as I thought I would have been. If I didn't have the Camaro, ya I would probably buy it but I do have it, and very happy with it. I feel compelled to really built out the Camaro, both performance and interior.

[Fraxum]

Sorry an STI does not compare favorably to any Porsche. In any way.

Also the current 911 Turbo is faster than a ZR1. I do not think they are withering away.

But Porches can be expensive used cars to maintain. If you have 2-3k laying around for the occasional big repair bill you will be fine.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Sorry an STI does not compare favorably to any Porsche. In any way.

I guess you didn't read what I said about Subaru and Porsche. Didn't even have anything to do with the STi directly and it was what Top Gear was talking about, not me, but I agree with it.

But the whole point of this post has nothing to do with costs, has to do with going in and testing out a 996 and what I felt about it and what it makes me feel about the Camaro. 996 = Big let down. Camaro SS = Better than how I felt before.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Sorry an STI does not compare favorably to any Porsche. In any way.

Also the current 911 Turbo is faster than a ZR1. I do not think they are withering away.

But Porches can be expensive used cars to maintain. If you have 2-3k laying around for the occasional big repair bill you will be fine.

Porche is far superior to a Camaro and even a Corvette. My uncle owns at GT3 RS and before that he had a 911 Turbo. I've driven his 911 and it feels incredible, it pulls hard and it handles really really well.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by BaylorAirForce

Porche is far superior to a Camaro and even a Corvette. My uncle owns at GT3 RS and before that he had a 911 Turbo. I've driven his 911 and it feels incredible, it pulls hard and it handles really really well.

It's all relative though and an opinion. I know my opinion is that the 996 isn't superior than my SS, or at least the one I drove. I also think the GT2 and GT3 are lesser, even brand new ones, are lesser than the 996 I drove. The reason is because I'm not into buying a track car for the street. It's about the comforts too. To me it's not just about performance. Heck, I think the Ferrari 599 is butt ugly and would gladly take a 360 or a 430 over a 599 any day even though the 599 will run circles around the 360/430.

Now my ///M3, that was a pretty sweet car. Had the total package, or at least for the time since it was about 6 years ago.