PFADT STAGE 3 Review - The good, the bad, and the ugly!

[fastkevman]

I had the Pfadt Stage 3 Performance Suspension System installed last week and I did 350 miles of in town and highway test driving by myself with the radio off this weekend to get the full effect.

The Car:
2011 1SS, M6, 4900mi. when kit was installed, minor cosmetic mods, Pedders brake lines, Airaid intake, otherwise stock.

The Good:
The handling is very tight, precise, and predictable.
The expected level of ride harshness is actually minimal and not bad at all.
Under hard acceleration it now feels like it launches smooth and straight with no wheel hop, loss of traction, or missed shifts.

The car feels like it has more power, is much easier to shift, and handles like it's on rails.

The Bad:
There are now squeaks and rattles in the dash/cowl area and the rear window/package tray area.
There is a very loud driveline "clunk" when the clutch is depressed.
The "herky-jerky" feeling in the driveline when you accelerate/decelerate during in town driving at lower speeds is 10 times worse than before.

Hopefully I can resolve the driveline issues when I install my DSS 1-piece aluminum driveshaft and to be fair I had an issue with a loose/twisted driveshaft rubber coupling the week before the suspension installation.
As far as the squeaks and rattles, I believe I'll have to live with them and I was not surprised they appeared, hopefully it doesn't increase too much.
UPDATE:
Driveline issues are gone!!! The DSS driveshaft resolved the "clunks" and "herky-jerkys".
Not sure about other noises because I suspect the GHL exhaust is louder than the squeaks and rattles.

The Ugly:
The rear gear whine is horrible, in 5th gear at 85mph on the highway it was intolerable and sounded like a supercharger was in the back seat.
It whines all the time, the faster I go the worse it gets.

My thoughts on this are that the Pfadt differential bushings can't possibly be causing this issue, they just don't isolate it.
I believe my rear gears were set for failure from the factory and I will be discussing this with my dealers service department to see what we can do.
UPDATE:
I talked to Jarrett at Pfadt and he stated that more noise transferred into the cabin is normal but, the "supercharger under the rear seat" is not and I should have it checked by a mod friendly dealer.
This only backed up what I thought about the differential bushings not causing the issue but, they also aren't hiding the issue.
So off to the dealer I went, took the service manager for a ride and they are keeping it to see what they can find.
He needs to get it on a lift to verify that everything is bolted up correctly, which I believe it is, and if so, they will dig in from there.
I will update again when I here from the dealer.
UPDATE 2:
Dealer rebuilt rearend, gears were burned up due to a low level of lube. I had the lube checked/replaced at my first check-up at the dealer where I bought the car and they didn't fill it up..........yet another reason why they will never see me again!
The rear is very quiet now, I'm happily pfadted!

Overall:
I am very happy with my choice but, unfortunately even though many of my cars shortcomings have been addressed a few more popped up that I am not fully prepared to deal with.
I was not planning on rebuilding the rearend, I was however planning on replacing the axles next year.
I have no regrets with the upgrade and wouldn't go back if I could, besides it looks great!





A special thanks goes out to County Corvette of West Chester, PA for the sale and installation of the kit, Jordan of JDP Motorsports and Pete of PeddersUSA for their personal advice, and everyone who posts on Camaro5, I did a lot of research before I went this route.

[Jaysin]

Nice review.

Please keep us informed on what you find to fix the clunk. I also have this, and can't figure out if it's coming from the carrier bearing, tranny or rear end. Thankfully, I don't have any gear whine.

[ddunerider]

That kinda sounds all bad ....the noise rattles.clunk..and the new noise from the rear end .I dont think I would be happy at all....I have'nt heard other brands doing that? One other friend had the same stuff installed and he had problems right of the bat...Think I will go whith Hotckins Stuff ..havent heard anything bad..Good luck..

[Hwystr]

I can't see where any of the things that you are saying are related to your suspension upgrades, I do think you are on the right track getting the rear checked out. Did you change your gearing? And if you did was it set up by someone that knew what they were doing? I have the same setup with coilovers and the racing sway bars and have no negative affects.

[Doc]

Have you replaced the oil in the differential? If you haven't, try replacing it with a quart of Royal Purple MaxGear 75w90. That should help quiet it down but it's possible the loose driveshaft issue stressed the diff and created problems in there. Definitely have that checked out because it shouldn't be making noise like that.

[Jaysin]

Originally Posted by ddunerider

That kinda sounds all bad ....the noise rattles.clunk..and the new noise from the rear end .I dont think I would be happy at all....

Originally Posted by Hwystr

I can't see where any of the things that you are saying are related to your suspension upgrades... I have the same setup with coilovers and the racing sway bars and have no negative affects.

It's not really a brand specific issue. When the stock differential bushings and the subframe mounts are replaced with aftermarket parts the noises that were being dampened by the stock bushings are now allowed to travels directly into the cabin. It's really car specific because of the large range in manufactures tolerances, the slop in the drive train is luck of the draw.

[SSOOCH]

For those that may not know......Anytime you replace your stock, soft rubber bushing with solid bushing all that road noise and mechanical noise is now going to be translated somewhere.

I don't care if you put in PFADT, BMR, Pedders, Hotchiks...whatever. If you don't want a hardcore ride, don't install hardcore parts. Personally I love all the hardcore sounds now in my car. It reminds Me that it's a machine!

[SilverIceman]

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

For those that may not know......Anytime you replace your stock, soft rubber bushing with solid bushing all that road noise and mechanical noise is now going to be translated somewhere.

I don't care if you put in PFADT, BMR, Pedders, Hotchiks...whatever. If you don't want a hardcore ride, don't install hardcore parts. Personally I love all the hardcore sounds now in my car. It reminds Me that it's a machine!

Problem is the retailers don't tell anybody what to expect when then recommend all those parts. I've got the full line-up of Pfadt's goodies, including the engine mounts. Now I've got all the rattles, squeaking, moaning and groaning from both the front and rear end with every turn of the wheel.

Definitely a Hard Core feel and sound now. I'm not upset, I reallized all the parts are made for racing and I made the decison to go with the changes, just really didn't know how noisy it was going to get. On the good side, the handling is Kick-@$$ and tight as can be. Definitely make the car track worthy.

I changed my dif lube last year right before the mods with Mobil 1, might do it again with the GM additive to see if it helps.

When I contacted them last Fall, Pfadt suggested I get it back to the installer to go over everything. Hasn't stopped raining here yet this Spring, but when it does I'll get it all checked out and fluid changed.

[1977and2010]

I changed my gear oil to the royal purple stuff at the same time i had the diff and subframe bushings changed and wow was it noisy. It sounded like a horrible grinding when turning and loud whining when going straight. I heard on here that someone was having some noises after switching to the royal purple. So I switched to Mobil 1 with some additive and 95% of the noises are gone. I was really disappointed with the bushings and the vendors not mentioning the increased NVH like you. But most of my issues ended up being with the lube. There still is more noise now but I've gotten used to it and can definitely live with it. I hope your issues can be fixed as easily as changing some fluid too

[fastkevman]

Originally Posted by 1977and2010

I hope your issues can be fixed as easily as changing some fluid too

Actually, I did a little update above but, after talking to Jared at Pfadt what I was experiencing was not just a normal increase of NVH.
The car is at the dealer with the rear pulled out for a rebuild, it definitely had an issue but, I haven't gotten the full damage report yet and I will update this thread when I get it back.

[fastkevman]

Originally Posted by SilverIceman

Problem is the retailers don't tell anybody what to expect when then recommend all those parts. I've got the full line-up of Pfadt's goodies, including the engine mounts. Now I've got all the rattles, squeaking, moaning and groaning from both the front and rear end with every turn of the wheel.

I have had quite a few noisy modified cars and trucks so I don't really mind the rattles and squeaks so much but, I am surprised by it on this car because almost every major suspension company and vendor brag about how solid this chassis is.

[calbert1999]

I have Hotchkis Race Pack (endlinks, springs, sway bars, strut brace; I have the same grinding, chatter / rattle and clunking noises. It's been like that for quite some time, has been inspected a few times and seems to be installed correctly.
Going to have vehicle inspected "again" this coming week to make sure the springs are seated correctly, endlinks setup, and check setting on rear sway bar (which setting for stiffness).
Overall I like the Hotchkis product too in terms of the difference in overall handling, but I don't like the noises (grinding when steering, front and rear clatter / rattle from springs).

[PfadtRacing]

fastkevman, I appreciate the review of your install. Thanks for contacting us about your concerns directly. It looks like you have taken an objective approach to diagnosing any noise problems you have. Noise is always a tough thing to give an opinion on as an aftermarket manufacturer, since a lof of the actual results will hinge on factory set up, and other aftermarket parts installed (specifically engine or tire related).

There are a lot of variables at play with ANY NVH. The most obvious is that is a very subjective thing as one person's expectations and perception of noise, vibration or harshness can differ wildly from the next Camaro owners'. What many of Camaro owners have found is that the factory differentials have a wide range of acceptable initial set ups, with varying noise levels. Adding performance parts to this equation, like fastkevman has pointed out, will never mask any specific issues.

Keep us updated!

[ThinBlueLine]

I have had my vehicle since January and currently have 2100 miles on it. I recently had Pfadt drop springs and sway bars (only) installed. I am amazed at the way it handles now, but!!! Now I have groaning and squeaking coming from the front end. I can’t hear the noises under normal driving conditions. The noises are best heard when driving at very slow speeds like: over speed bumps, pulling in and out of my driveway, street gutters, driving though parking lots etc..

Thinking that maybe the noises would go away I drove it for about a week before taking it back to the place that did the install. The owner of the shop and I went for a test drive and the first bump we hit he turned and looked at me in total amazement and said, “That sounds bad!” We returned to the shop they checked everything and decided to grease the fittings on the front end. Well, the grease didn’t do the trick!

For several months before buying my car I done a lot of research and never heard anything about these types of noises. I don't want to pass judgement on the parts manufacture yet, because they have several other thing that I want to put on my car.

I love showing off my new baby, but a simple drive through a parking lot were people are checking out the car and hitting a bump is pretty embarrassing! It sounds like the car is 50 years old!! Not happy about this~!!!!

Can anybody help???