Halo Rings Question - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

phenixdragon · 01-10-2012, 03:47 AM

Yesterday, I was in court fighting a ticket because I had modified my halo rings from the stock white to red. Basically, the judge didn't like the fact that I was asking the ticket to be dismissed based on a technicality. The RCW, Revised Code of Washington, that I was cited for explains what colors the side markers and reflectors have to be. Part of the RCW states that marker lights in front of the car can ONLY be amber, no other color is allowed.

So my argument is that the halos are not marker lights, they are part of the headlamp. In fact, if they were considered marker lights, the RS package on a Camaro would not actually be legal to sell in WA State, but the judge didn't want to hear it. The reason why it wouldn't be legal to see in WA State is because marker lights cannot be white, they may only be amber. If the halos are considered marker lights then they cannot be white.

The just seemed to agree with that argument but went on saying well they aren't headlights, they aren't reflectors, so they must be marker lights. It was like I was in a big loop with this guy. He brought up another RCW that states what a headlamp is and saying that headlamps have to be able to light up the road at night and how can the red halos light up the road in front of me. Now his argument back with this was only during his ruling and refused to allow me to rebut it. If the halos are white, they aren't marker lights, and they aren't headlamps because they don't light up the road at night. I was so pissed at this guy.

Now there is a specific RCW for displaying red in the front of the car which I was telling the judge is that this falls under. But like I said, the just didn't like that I was asking for the dismissal on the technicality of being written for the incorrect RCW. In WA State, a ticket is tossed based on that. I mean he even flat out was saying that he didn't like my way of trying to get the ticket dismissed and was saying that the RCW I was written for is kind of correct, not that it was actually correct. But like I said, the color of the halo doesn't change the halo from being considered a headlamp or a marker light.

If it is white, it is illegal in WA State if it is a marker lamp so it cannot be a marker lamp.

I have spoke to my normal ticket attorney and someone he knows who handles many appeals and I could appeal it, but the court I was in has a bad rap for following the law to what it says. I could appeal it, but it may end up costing $3,500 in legal fees, not worth it. Maybe $1,000 I'd drop on this for principal. My real only hope is to ask for a reconsideration, but I probably would be writing a letter to the same judge so I am going to at least try that, it is free to do so. Even speaking to a couple of cop buddies agree with me that the judge was dead wrong on this. Even my attorney was talking about how something like this really only can be won if the judge is a car guy and talked about how he had an appeal he won because the judge was one when he fought someone who had a ticket for a loud muffler but it was the headers that was loud. Granted it is part of the exhaust, the guy was cited for the muffler which was not technically what was wrong and was dismissed on the appeal.

So I'm not posting this for comments on what happened, or getting BS from people about having red halos. I take my chances with the halos and if I get a ticket, then I get a ticket. But I take it personal when judges don't follow the law. Don't care to hear anyone's opinion about it. What I am asking about is that is there anything that specifically states what are marker lights on the Camaro or that the halos are the headlamp? The manual doesn't mention about the halos, but the window sticker mentions it, but the judge wouldn't take it citing the whole headlamps are only lamps that can light up the road at night. Which if I were to change my headlight bulbs to black lights it wouldn't be considered headlamps anymore, according to his logic.

Anyway, is there anything out there from GM that states this? Maybe from one of the dealer people on this forum? Maybe I could even get a letter from someone at a dealer? Or are the halos considered DRLs such as the fog lights are with the RS package?

Just to also add. I do plan on swapping these halos out back to stock. Just a certain company that sells lighting screwed over the kit and refuses to fix it. I planned on buying brand new lamps but these suckers aren’t cheap and I have had more important things for my money to go to, and the Camaro isn’t my daily driver. Even this case I was just going to the library a few miles from my house and back one morning. But the wireless remote I have for the halos is broken so don’t have the ability to turn the halos off without taking off my bumper. Plus I also was in talks to the local dealer about getting a ZL1 a few months back and this weekend I plan on going in about selling me a 2 car deal, one being a ZL1 and trading in the SS so I didn’t really want to spend money on new lamps if I trade this beast in for a bigger beats. Never been ticketed before on them, and only pulled over once prior because I had a headlight out. That cop thought they were pretty cool. But I learned very quickly that they area I bought my house in likes to pull people over for everything whereas when I lived south of Seattle or in the perceived rich area of WA State, cops don't care about minor things. Even speeding you have to be doing a good 10+ mph. I and others do think it’s all out revenue for the city and county I now live in. I think even this county has an entire police prescient fuel by speeding tickets. Each year they just add more bike cops as then keep increasing their revenue. Might be the next county over but I remember this on the news awhile back, but it’s not the intended spirit of the law.

bee sting · 01-10-2012, 04:58 AM

h2oplay · 01-10-2012, 06:42 AM

If traffic enforcement was for safety, the police would be in the parking lot of the local pub giving free BAC tests, not hiding down the street waiting for you to "mess up"

PitchBlack · 01-10-2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oplay

If traffic enforcement was for safety, the police would be in the parking lot of the local pub giving free BAC tests, not hiding down the street waiting for you to "mess up"

Believe it or not, that's one of the things a defense attorney will rip an officer a new one on the stand for (with the courts blessing), is when officers "lay in wait" outside the clubs.
But I understand what your saying

phenixdragon · 01-10-2012, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oplay

If traffic enforcement was for safety, the police would be in the parking lot of the local pub giving free BAC tests, not hiding down the street waiting for you to "mess up"

I think it used to be more for safety as the spirit of the law isn't about busting people for everything and ticketing everyone for everything. But today it is more now about control and revenue. It’s like when the seat belt law became a primary offense in WA State, Seattle PD was down at the ferry docks ticketing people waiting in line for the ferry. Technically they were violating the law for not wearing seat belt while they were waiting for the ferry. They only stopped this once it got all over the news. Or like red light cameras, I don't know who doesn't think the cities only do it for revenue. Some people I know think it adds safety, but I think those same people also think it’s for revenue.

But I don’t want to get too far off on trying to find out if any GM or any other type of documentation that shows that halos are part of the headlamp and not marker lights. I need to see about getting this all documented by Monday to drop off and file with the court. I doubt I will get it reversed but worth a shot.

IROCanSS · 01-10-2012, 07:30 AM

Lmao, you admit to putting RED lights in the front of your car. OF COURSE you got a ticket. RED is emergency vehicles only. You'll get stopped every time.

Don't fight it. You're wrong and never going to find a judge to dismiss or over turn this.

Pay your ticket and only use the red off road.

phenixdragon · 01-10-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IROCanSS

Lmao, you admit to putting RED lights in the front of your car. OF COURSE you got a ticket. RED is emergency vehicles only. You'll get stopped every time.

Don't fight it. You're wrong and never going to find a judge to dismiss or over turn this.

Pay your ticket and only use the red off road.

What are you talking about? Did you read what I said? Nd did you read about not commenting about giving me BS? ultimately I take the chances and if this is what happens, it happens. And no. I am not wrong, dead right on this. The RCW I was written for dictates only what color your marker and reflectors are. This is not the RCW for what colors you can not have up front. There is a specific RCW that says you may not have red lights up front.

If you have a ticket, and the ticket has the incorrect citation on it, ticket dismissed. They can't change change the charge. Just like I can say I was drunk as heck, nothing could happen. Now if I was citated for the proper RCW, then there is nothing to fight and I would have mitigated it to a non moving violation, like being on a cell phone.

Learn the law son.

And no, I don't get stopped every time. Only once. Passed maybe 100 cops in the past year with them, maybe sitting across from the intersection.

So unless you have a response to what I am asking about, hush up.

Jamie Mac · 01-10-2012, 07:55 AM

I dont think you are getting out of this. Everyone who does it is volunteering to get pulled over just like putting super dark tint on.

1 your regular ticket attorney
2 you'd appeal but that court has a bad rap for following the law
3 you hate a judge that doesn't follow the law

Kilo-9 · 01-10-2012, 08:18 AM

Perhaps you were cited under the incorrect section. However, you can't expect to run red lights in the front of your vehicle and not get caught. It's pretty widely known and accepted that red lighting is reserved for emergency vehicles. Like Jamie Mac said, it's like running dark tint. You may or may not get caught. You rolled the dice and lost this time.

phenixdragon · 01-10-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac

I dont think you are getting out of this. Everyone who does it is volunteering to get pulled over just like putting super dark tint on.

1 your regular ticket attorney
2 you'd appeal but that court has a bad rap for following the law
3 you hate a judge that doesn't follow the law

I don't disagree with that at all. I don't think at this point I will get out of it. In a Seattle court, county court, state or just really anywhere closer to Seattle, no question about it that it would be dropped. But it is worth a shot. My only chance I see is providing documentation are not marker lights, which he did agree if they were white they would also be against the law, which is why they are considered headlamps but wouldn't allow me to may that point throwing in that I was taking to much time in the case and another IRJL, Infraction Rules for Courts of Limited Jurisdiction, about the cases are supposed to be quick. Which yes they are, but it is for my benefit, not for the court to cut me of and not rebut because it's supposed to be quick. It's suppose to be quick so that the court doesn't jerk the defendant around and screw the defendant, such as the thought behind speedy trial laws.

phenixdragon · 01-10-2012, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilo-9

Perhaps you were cited under the incorrect section. However, you can't expect to run red lights in the front of your vehicle and not get caught. It's pretty widely known and accepted that red lighting is reserved for emergency vehicles. Like Jamie Mac said, it's like running dark tint. You may or may not get caught. You rolled the dice and lost this time.

Exactly what I am saying.

IROCanSS · 01-10-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

What are you talking about? Did you read what I said? Nd did you read about not commenting about giving me BS? ultimately I take the chances and if this is what happens, it happens. And no. I am not wrong, dead right on this. The RCW I was written for dictates only what color your marker and reflectors are. This is not the RCW for what colors you can not have up front. There is a specific RCW that says you may not have red lights up front.

If you have a ticket, and the ticket has the incorrect citation on it, ticket dismissed. They can't change change the charge. Just like I can say I was drunk as heck, nothing could happen. Now if I was citated for the proper RCW, then there is nothing to fight and I would have mitigated it to a non moving violation, like being on a cell phone.

Learn the law son.

And no, I don't get stopped every time. Only once. Passed maybe 100 cops in the past year with them, maybe sitting across from the intersection.

So unless you have a response to what I am asking about, hush up.

I'm sorry, no I didn't read your entire rant bc it bored me. I got to you complaining and fighting about red lights on the front and that was enough. Red lights is a no no. My buddy Kilo-9 (who may know a thing or two about the law... son) has red halos but knows well enough to keep them to shows. I have really dark tint and no front plate. If I get stopped, I'd just pay the ticket and move on.

I'm sorry, but I AM trying to help you. You're fighting a loosing battle and only going to waste your money. You got a stickler cop who tagged you... yes it sucks but you ran the risk.

I was not trying to attack you in any way, just stating you have an uphill battle.

HookemHorns · 01-10-2012, 08:27 AM

The spirit of the law and the letter of the law are not the same. I have seen judges on both sides as well as in the middle.

I certainly think this is a minor issue like going 5 over the speed limit. Some LEO"S will nail you and some will let you go, all depends on what type of day they are having AND their personalities.

IROCanSS · 01-10-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac

If you get a female judge you could say the halo was a head light accessory. Most women I know all talk about accesorizing. Nah, probably still not worth a shot. Lol

01-10-2012, 03:47 AM	#1
phenixdragon Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 781	Halo Rings Question Yesterday, I was in court fighting a ticket because I had modified my halo rings from the stock white to red. Basically, the judge didn't like the fact that I was asking the ticket to be dismissed based on a technicality. The RCW, Revised Code of Washington, that I was cited for explains what colors the side markers and reflectors have to be. Part of the RCW states that marker lights in front of the car can ONLY be amber, no other color is allowed. So my argument is that the halos are not marker lights, they are part of the headlamp. In fact, if they were considered marker lights, the RS package on a Camaro would not actually be legal to sell in WA State, but the judge didn't want to hear it. The reason why it wouldn't be legal to see in WA State is because marker lights cannot be white, they may only be amber. If the halos are considered marker lights then they cannot be white. The just seemed to agree with that argument but went on saying well they aren't headlights, they aren't reflectors, so they must be marker lights. It was like I was in a big loop with this guy. He brought up another RCW that states what a headlamp is and saying that headlamps have to be able to light up the road at night and how can the red halos light up the road in front of me. Now his argument back with this was only during his ruling and refused to allow me to rebut it. If the halos are white, they aren't marker lights, and they aren't headlamps because they don't light up the road at night. I was so pissed at this guy. Now there is a specific RCW for displaying red in the front of the car which I was telling the judge is that this falls under. But like I said, the just didn't like that I was asking for the dismissal on the technicality of being written for the incorrect RCW. In WA State, a ticket is tossed based on that. I mean he even flat out was saying that he didn't like my way of trying to get the ticket dismissed and was saying that the RCW I was written for is kind of correct, not that it was actually correct. But like I said, the color of the halo doesn't change the halo from being considered a headlamp or a marker light. If it is white, it is illegal in WA State if it is a marker lamp so it cannot be a marker lamp. I have spoke to my normal ticket attorney and someone he knows who handles many appeals and I could appeal it, but the court I was in has a bad rap for following the law to what it says. I could appeal it, but it may end up costing $3,500 in legal fees, not worth it. Maybe $1,000 I'd drop on this for principal. My real only hope is to ask for a reconsideration, but I probably would be writing a letter to the same judge so I am going to at least try that, it is free to do so. Even speaking to a couple of cop buddies agree with me that the judge was dead wrong on this. Even my attorney was talking about how something like this really only can be won if the judge is a car guy and talked about how he had an appeal he won because the judge was one when he fought someone who had a ticket for a loud muffler but it was the headers that was loud. Granted it is part of the exhaust, the guy was cited for the muffler which was not technically what was wrong and was dismissed on the appeal. So I'm not posting this for comments on what happened, or getting BS from people about having red halos. I take my chances with the halos and if I get a ticket, then I get a ticket. But I take it personal when judges don't follow the law. Don't care to hear anyone's opinion about it. What I am asking about is that is there anything that specifically states what are marker lights on the Camaro or that the halos are the headlamp? The manual doesn't mention about the halos, but the window sticker mentions it, but the judge wouldn't take it citing the whole headlamps are only lamps that can light up the road at night. Which if I were to change my headlight bulbs to black lights it wouldn't be considered headlamps anymore, according to his logic. Anyway, is there anything out there from GM that states this? Maybe from one of the dealer people on this forum? Maybe I could even get a letter from someone at a dealer? Or are the halos considered DRLs such as the fog lights are with the RS package? Just to also add. I do plan on swapping these halos out back to stock. Just a certain company that sells lighting screwed over the kit and refuses to fix it. I planned on buying brand new lamps but these suckers aren’t cheap and I have had more important things for my money to go to, and the Camaro isn’t my daily driver. Even this case I was just going to the library a few miles from my house and back one morning. But the wireless remote I have for the halos is broken so don’t have the ability to turn the halos off without taking off my bumper. Plus I also was in talks to the local dealer about getting a ZL1 a few months back and this weekend I plan on going in about selling me a 2 car deal, one being a ZL1 and trading in the SS so I didn’t really want to spend money on new lamps if I trade this beast in for a bigger beats. Never been ticketed before on them, and only pulled over once prior because I had a headlight out. That cop thought they were pretty cool. But I learned very quickly that they area I bought my house in likes to pull people over for everything whereas when I lived south of Seattle or in the perceived rich area of WA State, cops don't care about minor things. Even speeding you have to be doing a good 10+ mph. I and others do think it’s all out revenue for the city and county I now live in. I think even this county has an entire police prescient fuel by speeding tickets. Each year they just add more bike cops as then keep increasing their revenue. Might be the next county over but I remember this on the news awhile back, but it’s not the intended spirit of the law. Last edited by phenixdragon; 01-10-2012 at 06:06 AM.

01-10-2012, 04:58 AM	#2
bee sting Drives: 1997 30th Ann. Z28 & 2010 2LT RS Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Suffolk Virginia Posts: 1,933 View My Garage	__________________

01-10-2012, 07:55 AM	#8
Jamie Mac NCM-WINR Drives: 2010 SS/RS IOM 2014 2LT Stingray Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 2,324	I dont think you are getting out of this. Everyone who does it is volunteering to get pulled over just like putting super dark tint on. 1 your regular ticket attorney 2 you'd appeal but that court has a bad rap for following the law 3 you hate a judge that doesn't follow the law __________________ also drives a heavily modified Jeep Wrangler. It has LED headlights and wheel weights blacked out with Plasti Dip. It's Baller.

01-10-2012, 08:18 AM	#9
Kilo-9 Dog Is My Copilot Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,394	Perhaps you were cited under the incorrect section. However, you can't expect to run red lights in the front of your vehicle and not get caught. It's pretty widely known and accepted that red lighting is reserved for emergency vehicles. Like Jamie Mac said, it's like running dark tint. You may or may not get caught. You rolled the dice and lost this time. __________________

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01-10-2012, 06:42 AM	#3
h2oplay Winners find a way Drives: 2010 2LT/RS M6 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,137	If traffic enforcement was for safety, the police would be in the parking lot of the local pub giving free BAC tests, not hiding down the street waiting for you to "mess up"

01-10-2012, 07:30 AM	#6
IROCanSS Account Suspended Drives: 89 IROC 350 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Back roads, southern Ohio Posts: 12,504 View My Garage	Lmao, you admit to putting RED lights in the front of your car. OF COURSE you got a ticket. RED is emergency vehicles only. You'll get stopped every time. Don't fight it. You're wrong and never going to find a judge to dismiss or over turn this. Pay your ticket and only use the red off road.

01-10-2012, 08:27 AM	#13
HookemHorns Drives: 2023 Camaro ZL1 Red Hot Convertible Join Date: May 2011 Location: Arkansas Posts: 859	The spirit of the law and the letter of the law are not the same. I have seen judges on both sides as well as in the middle. I certainly think this is a minor issue like going 5 over the speed limit. Some LEO"S will nail you and some will let you go, all depends on what type of day they are having AND their personalities.