Brake Upgrade for DE and track days - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

SSINSTR · 11-07-2012, 07:31 PM

Took my car to TWS a few weeks ago for a drivers education event. Had a lot of fun and the instructors were top notch. I had one complaint, the stock brakes are just not up for the amount of heat produced in these types of events. I experienced brake fade after about 6-8 laps and at one point completely lost the brakes at about 120mph on the front straight. Luckily the course partially runs on an old oval track so I ended up just riding the oval. It was probably a combination of the Dot 3 brake fluid reaching boiling point and the pads fading. I am now going to do a full brake upgrade with the exception of the calipers.

Here is the list:
Rotors (stock ones are warped)
Pads
Dot 4 fluid (most likely motul 600)
Stainless lines

My main question is what would be a good pad for this setup. The car is NOT a daily driver but is taken on weekend cruises and out to dinner occasionally. I do plan on doing a track day every couple of months or so and I want something that can handle a relatively high speed road course without fade. Is there a happy medium between a street pad (such as the HPS) and full on track pad. I don't mind the dust but can't stand the nails on the chalkboard screech on the street. Thanks in advance!

So Cal Camaro · 11-07-2012, 08:07 PM

Good luck with that one, I generally annoy all my Camaro friends with the screeching brakes, there is no one pad that does it all to my knowledge, so I deal with the noise...If you find one, let me know...

Synner · 11-07-2012, 08:41 PM

Racing brake or DBA rotors. Motul is good stuff. HPS won't cut it at all. I've got HP+ right now which works on lower speed tracks but would quickly be outmatched by multiple high speed stops per lap. I just got the CTS-V rotors and am looking at 2-piece rotor options and maybe DTC-30 pads or something even more aggressive with higher temp ranges.

If you plan on getting serious with it I'd recommend 2 sets of pads that are compatible with the same rotor. Especially if you have an aversion to screeching brakes. Strong pads will be loud, no helping it. These brembos are about as easy as it gets for pad changes. And its good to bleed them before each track day anyways so its not really any more work to knock out 2 pins, push in pistons, and put another pad in.

Cuda7050 · 11-07-2012, 09:38 PM

Run a street pad on the street and change out to a full race pad before heading to the track. I run stock pads on the street and Raybestos ST 43's on the track. I have ATE blue dot 4 fluid and stanless lines with the race pads it works great.

jeremywes · 11-08-2012, 11:34 AM

I've ran TWS a few times and the length and intensity of your breaking zone can influence overall heat build-up as well as having TC turned on or off. The motul or other high performance fluid will help alot. Changing the pad will alter the braking characteristics but will not prevent heat build-up to address your brake fade. You might search on brake ducting, a few posts have been made to show what other members have tried but I haven't seen an aftermarker kit for the Camaro yet. Good luck

BMR Tech · 11-08-2012, 03:10 PM

The best pad I've used so far has been the StopTech High Performance Street Pads. They have an extremely high heat range so you shouldn't have to worry about fade like you would on an HP Plus pad. They also don't make any noise on the street - my HP Plus pads did. I highly suggest them to anyone looking to make a pad upgrade they can use daily and get some fun track laps out of.

That being said...I think everyone should have a pad/rotor combo for track use to be safe as possible.

- Kevin

Rob@WretchedMS · 11-08-2012, 03:52 PM

I wouldn't recommend using the same pads for street and track.

No street pad is acceptable on the track, no track pad is good for the street.

the more aggressive the pad, the more dust, and the more noise.

First track day i went to 2 cars went off course at turn 1 because of their brakes fading.

2 ways that you can attack the fade issue.

Control the heat, or make the heat not be as much of a problem.

To control the heat, you can:
not use the brakes as much
improve the cooling to the brakes

basically controlling the heat isn't going to work.

Dealing with the heat:
Higher Temp Pads
Improved Rotors (2 piece are a better option)
High Temp Brake Fluid, completely flushed through, including the ABS accumulator
improve the cooling to the brakes

The issue with high temp pads, is that they don't work well at lower temps, and are next to useless in the cold whether, they make a ton of dust, they make a good amount of noise, but they stop like you wouldn't believe, lol

Higher end brake rotors will handle the heat better than stock rotors will, and the 2 piece rotors with an aluminum hat are even better, at getting rid of the heat.

With the brake fluid, the best of the best is Castrol SRF, if needs to be swapped 100% as it will not work in combination with the stock fluid. The drawback to the high end fluid is that it needs to be changed out a lot more frequently. At least once a year.

cornerspeed92 · 11-09-2012, 07:23 PM

I have Baer cross drilled/slotted rotors on my 2011 RS which i am selling to make room for my 1LE. I found a place that will drill and slot my stock rotors for $80.00(as opposed to almost $600.00 for new ones) does anybody have any knolwedge if this is a good idea?

Rob@WretchedMS · 11-09-2012, 07:24 PM

it is NOT a good idea to slot and drill blank rotors.

cornerspeed92 · 11-09-2012, 07:32 PM

Thanks,then i will wait to do it right.

Merc · 11-09-2012, 08:11 PM

I'm looking at up-grading my front rotors to two piece DBA's this winter.

Currently I'm running HP+ on stock rotors.:(

JusticePete · 11-10-2012, 01:54 PM

Take a good look at the heat ranges on the pads listed in this link.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp

Running hard on a fast track a 5th Gen rotors will be over 1,200 degrees. The closer get to the listed high temp range of the pad, the more likely it is you will encounter fade.

For track use, buy pads only from a manufacturer that clearly lists the operating range of the pad. Charts and graphs might look cool, but you want hard numbers for the heat range. No numbers = Do Not Buy.

Do not buy high temperature pads made for light weight cars to use on your two ton Camaro. They won't work.

SS lines and SRF brake fluid are mandatory. Other fluids are good. SRF is the best.

Brake ducts are a great idea, if you feed the duct with hard clean air.

Listen to guys like Rob Anderson that drive hard and fast on track. They know what they are talking about. You might also want to give Bruce Raymond a call. Bruce has custom made pads that he uses on his OPTIMA Camaro. He'll also be able to sell you the CTS-V front calipers to go with his pads.

11-07-2012, 07:31 PM	#1
SSINSTR Michelin Man Assassin Drives: '10 IBM 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Lone Star State Posts: 217 View My Garage	Brake Upgrade for DE and track days Took my car to TWS a few weeks ago for a drivers education event. Had a lot of fun and the instructors were top notch. I had one complaint, the stock brakes are just not up for the amount of heat produced in these types of events. I experienced brake fade after about 6-8 laps and at one point completely lost the brakes at about 120mph on the front straight. Luckily the course partially runs on an old oval track so I ended up just riding the oval. It was probably a combination of the Dot 3 brake fluid reaching boiling point and the pads fading. I am now going to do a full brake upgrade with the exception of the calipers. Here is the list: Rotors (stock ones are warped) Pads Dot 4 fluid (most likely motul 600) Stainless lines My main question is what would be a good pad for this setup. The car is NOT a daily driver but is taken on weekend cruises and out to dinner occasionally. I do plan on doing a track day every couple of months or so and I want something that can handle a relatively high speed road course without fade. Is there a happy medium between a street pad (such as the HPS) and full on track pad. I don't mind the dust but can't stand the nails on the chalkboard screech on the street. Thanks in advance!

11-07-2012, 08:07 PM	#2
So Cal Camaro So Cal Race Team Drives: 2013 Camaro Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sunny So Cal Posts: 3,584	Good luck with that one, I generally annoy all my Camaro friends with the screeching brakes, there is no one pad that does it all to my knowledge, so I deal with the noise...If you find one, let me know... __________________

11-09-2012, 08:11 PM	#11
Merc In The Circle Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SSRS IOM M6 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Abbotsford BC Canada Posts: 11,310	I'm looking at up-grading my front rotors to two piece DBA's this winter. Currently I'm running HP+ on stock rotors.:( __________________ My Build Thread

11-07-2012, 08:41 PM	#3
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,542	Racing brake or DBA rotors. Motul is good stuff. HPS won't cut it at all. I've got HP+ right now which works on lower speed tracks but would quickly be outmatched by multiple high speed stops per lap. I just got the CTS-V rotors and am looking at 2-piece rotor options and maybe DTC-30 pads or something even more aggressive with higher temp ranges. If you plan on getting serious with it I'd recommend 2 sets of pads that are compatible with the same rotor. Especially if you have an aversion to screeching brakes. Strong pads will be loud, no helping it. These brembos are about as easy as it gets for pad changes. And its good to bleed them before each track day anyways so its not really any more work to knock out 2 pins, push in pistons, and put another pad in.

11-07-2012, 09:38 PM	#4
Cuda7050 Drives: 2012 SS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: NorCal Posts: 818	Run a street pad on the street and change out to a full race pad before heading to the track. I run stock pads on the street and Raybestos ST 43's on the track. I have ATE blue dot 4 fluid and stanless lines with the race pads it works great.

11-08-2012, 11:34 AM	#5
jeremywes Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 504 View My Garage	I've ran TWS a few times and the length and intensity of your breaking zone can influence overall heat build-up as well as having TC turned on or off. The motul or other high performance fluid will help alot. Changing the pad will alter the braking characteristics but will not prevent heat build-up to address your brake fade. You might search on brake ducting, a few posts have been made to show what other members have tried but I haven't seen an aftermarker kit for the Camaro yet. Good luck

11-08-2012, 03:10 PM	#6
BMR Tech Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 256	The best pad I've used so far has been the StopTech High Performance Street Pads. They have an extremely high heat range so you shouldn't have to worry about fade like you would on an HP Plus pad. They also don't make any noise on the street - my HP Plus pads did. I highly suggest them to anyone looking to make a pad upgrade they can use daily and get some fun track laps out of. That being said...I think everyone should have a pad/rotor combo for track use to be safe as possible. - Kevin

11-08-2012, 03:52 PM	#7
Rob@WretchedMS Drives: His Wife Crazy Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson Posts: 1,789	I wouldn't recommend using the same pads for street and track. No street pad is acceptable on the track, no track pad is good for the street. the more aggressive the pad, the more dust, and the more noise. First track day i went to 2 cars went off course at turn 1 because of their brakes fading. 2 ways that you can attack the fade issue. Control the heat, or make the heat not be as much of a problem. To control the heat, you can: not use the brakes as much improve the cooling to the brakes basically controlling the heat isn't going to work. Dealing with the heat: Higher Temp Pads Improved Rotors (2 piece are a better option) High Temp Brake Fluid, completely flushed through, including the ABS accumulator improve the cooling to the brakes The issue with high temp pads, is that they don't work well at lower temps, and are next to useless in the cold whether, they make a ton of dust, they make a good amount of noise, but they stop like you wouldn't believe, lol Higher end brake rotors will handle the heat better than stock rotors will, and the 2 piece rotors with an aluminum hat are even better, at getting rid of the heat. With the brake fluid, the best of the best is Castrol SRF, if needs to be swapped 100% as it will not work in combination with the stock fluid. The drawback to the high end fluid is that it needs to be changed out a lot more frequently. At least once a year.

11-09-2012, 07:23 PM	#8
cornerspeed92 Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 View My Garage	I have Baer cross drilled/slotted rotors on my 2011 RS which i am selling to make room for my 1LE. I found a place that will drill and slot my stock rotors for $80.00(as opposed to almost $600.00 for new ones) does anybody have any knolwedge if this is a good idea?

11-09-2012, 07:24 PM	#9
Rob@WretchedMS Drives: His Wife Crazy Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Silas Deane Auto,CT Name: Rob Anderson Posts: 1,789	it is NOT a good idea to slot and drill blank rotors.

11-09-2012, 07:32 PM	#10
cornerspeed92 Drives: 2013 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,188 View My Garage	Thanks,then i will wait to do it right.

11-10-2012, 01:54 PM	#12
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,171	Take a good look at the heat ranges on the pads listed in this link. http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp Running hard on a fast track a 5th Gen rotors will be over 1,200 degrees. The closer get to the listed high temp range of the pad, the more likely it is you will encounter fade. For track use, buy pads only from a manufacturer that clearly lists the operating range of the pad. Charts and graphs might look cool, but you want hard numbers for the heat range. No numbers = Do Not Buy. Do not buy high temperature pads made for light weight cars to use on your two ton Camaro. They won't work. SS lines and SRF brake fluid are mandatory. Other fluids are good. SRF is the best. Brake ducts are a great idea, if you feed the duct with hard clean air. Listen to guys like Rob Anderson that drive hard and fast on track. They know what they are talking about. You might also want to give Bruce Raymond a call. Bruce has custom made pads that he uses on his OPTIMA Camaro. He'll also be able to sell you the CTS-V front calipers to go with his pads.