Vararam Ram Air V

[tjd24]

What's everyone's thoughts on the Vararam Ram Air V - see link: http://www.vararam.com/g8.html

They claim +35HP - link gives some spec details & the price is $369 for the G8 GXP version which has an LS3 engine - their sales email response indicated they've used this for their Camaro offerings though not yet posted on their website. They're completing the v6 LLT version now.

I've posted same to the LS3 / L99 Engine and Powertrain Discussions - I'd just make sure Vararam has fully tested the Camaro LS3 / L99 before assuming its "plug & play" on yours. Sales email for questions = sales@vararam.com. Here's a link to a Motor Trend article on the G8 GXP and its verison of the LS3 http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...ook/index.html.

As for the V6 LLT version - I am waiting on specs and install instructions to be sent to me before I order. Also asked questions on how the unit deals with water splashes getting into the intake which is an issue with open filter CAIs. This unit appears to have some protection but asked anyway.

If any member has experiece with Vararam from other models please chime in...

[Xanthos]

Not sure if the HP claims are correct, but their CFM ratings are certainly not. Mathematically, even if you were ram air pressurizing the air box @ 155 mph, the straight pipe leading from the air box to the throttle body would have to be a huge **5 INCH** diameter in order to flow 1900 CFM. The filter may flow that much, but the intake itself certainly won't. Since that looks to be a 3 inch pipe, we're talking more like 600 CFM max. However, 600 CFM would be more than enough for a 3.6L engine, and the ram air would certainly reduce pumping loses.
- Xanthos

[trudawg660]

i have been looking for a dyno with this but i cant find one to actually prove this, sounds like a lot of hot air at the moment.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

Not sure if the HP claims are correct, but their CFM ratings are certainly not. Mathematically, even if you were ram air pressurizing the air box @ 155 mph, the straight pipe leading from the air box to the throttle body would have to be a huge **5 INCH** diameter in order to flow 1900 CFM. The filter may flow that much, but the intake itself certainly won't. Since that looks to be a 3 inch pipe, we're talking more like 600 CFM max. However, 600 CFM would be more than enough for a 3.6L engine, and the ram air would certainly reduce pumping loses.
- Xanthos

It's not all about diameter though is it? Moreso surface area right?

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

It's not all about diameter though is it? Moreso surface area right?

After the air flows across the surface area of the filter, it must be recompressed to flow through the pipe and into the throttle body. No matter how much air will flow through the filter/air box, it will ALWAYS be limited by how much air can flow through that pipe.
- Xanthos

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

After the air flows across the surface area of the filter, it must be recompressed to flow through the pipe and into the throttle body. No matter how much air will flow through the filter/air box, it will ALWAYS be limited by how much air can flow through that pipe.
- Xanthos

By that standard the TB is always going to limit you then anyway- so as long as the rest of the intake can flow more- why does it matter?

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

By that standard the TB is always going to limit you then anyway- so as long as the rest of the intake can flow more- why does it matter?

The point I was trying to make is that if they're fabricating CFM ratings to make their product look better, maybe they're fabricating horsepower ratings as well.

I've always been interested in making a ram-air system. But I think I'll be making/designing my own.
- Xanthos

P.S. - And by that token, you'd have to have a 5 inch (~120 mm) throttle body in order to flow that much air.

[patriotpa]

So if the CAI pipe is > the throttle body it won't make any more power than a tube = throttle body. Correct?

[The_Blur]

Ram air is not possible on the Camaro without significant modification to the hood and front end. The hood latch is directly between the faux air inlet on the SS and the intake. Moving this would require the installation of hood pins and the removal of a large amount of body work.

I also doubt the accuracy of the numbers.

[MontyCarlo]

Originally Posted by patriotpa

So if the CAI pipe is > the throttle body it won't make any more power than a tube = throttle body. Correct?

No. Everything along the air's path costs you some power. It's not just the most restrictive point that counts. You lose some in the filter no matter what, some in the pipe no matter what, some in the throttle body no matter what... it's just that if there's one part that causes a much bigger loss than the others, then improving the good parts won't benefit you much anymore.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by MontyCarlo

No. Everything along the air's path costs you some power. It's not just the most restrictive point that counts. You lose some in the filter no matter what, some in the pipe no matter what, some in the throttle body no matter what... it's just that if there's one part that causes a much bigger loss than the others, then improving the good parts won't benefit you much anymore.

While this is somewhat true, its mostly true due to the pressure drop (a less restrictive filter will get you closer to the ideal 1 ATM of pressure) not due to maximum flow - your intake will never be able to flow more CFM than the most restrictive point.

Period.

End of story.

That said, filters, intake length, etc all factor into the final pressure drop of the system - i.e. they slow down the incoming air, reducing the net CFM. Improving the total flow at the filter will improve the overall efficiency (i.e. reduce pumping loss) of the system. So having a good intake is still worth it, but you'll never fit more than ~525 CFM through a 60mm throttle body, for example.
- Xanthos

P.S. - This is another major reason that I prefer short ram intakes to longer cold air intakes. Less pumping loss = crisper throttle response and better top end power. Your low-mid range power is affected more by exhaust/tuning anyway.

[MontyCarlo]

Perhaps Bernoulli's Principle is failing me, but there should be no such thing as "maximum flow" for any given point. Apply a bigger pressure differential across something, and there will always be more flow through it, with the flow rate varying with the square root of the pressure and air density differentials.

...unless by "maximum flow" you mean "the flow that would result if every single psi of the pressure differential between the intake point and the engine's minimum operating pressure were expended shoving air through this one restrictive feature," which now that I think about it would be a pretty useful number to have and would be a more practical use of the term "maximum flow" than what I was talking about.

In that case, it would be "you'll never fit more than ~525 CFM through a 60mm throttle body with natural aspiration" or "...with a boost of xx psi or less."

Sorry if that was pointless, but I'm a mechanical engineer who analyzes fluid flow & thermodynamics, I'm kind of bored, and you got picky.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by MontyCarlo

Perhaps Bernoulli's Principle is failing me, but there should be no such thing as "maximum flow" for any given point. Apply a bigger pressure differential across something, and there will always be more flow through it, with the flow rate varying with the square root of the pressure and air density differentials.

...unless by "maximum flow" you mean "the flow that would result if every single psi of the pressure differential between the intake point and the engine's minimum operating pressure were expended shoving air through this one restrictive feature," which now that I think about it would be a pretty useful number to have and would be a more practical use of the term "maximum flow" than what I was talking about.

In that case, it would be "you'll never fit more than ~525 CFM through a 60mm throttle body with natural aspiration" or "...with a boost of xx psi or less."

Sorry if that was pointless, but I'm a mechanical engineer who analyzes fluid flow & thermodynamics, I'm kind of bored, and you got picky.

Yes. I was discussing intake only, and so everything was using N/A theory. In a N/A situation, your maximum pressure (and thus maximum air velocity) will be 14.7 PSI. In a boosted situation, it would be 14.7 PSI + boost pressure, which would increase CFM accordingly. Either way, your intake will always be limited by that one point (which, more times than not, will be the throttle body).
- Xanthos

P.S. - On a related note, I studied engineering physics for 2.5 years before I decided recently to change my major.

[Hemlawk]

Xanthos, you let that little kid in your sig drive your Camaro?