Header Installation Concern - Delayed Tune

[DNA]

deleted

[Camar0wn3d]

Some tuners give free tunes after future modifications or at least discounted future tunes...call around and see what the policy is of tuners in your area

[SK360]

You'll be fine, a lot of people never get tuned after headers...

I waited 6 months until I bought HPTuners for the GTO after installing headers and beat the piss out of it at the track in the meantime.

Just be sure you don't need inspected before you get tuned as you will prob throw a CEL for P0420 and P0430 due to aftermarket/no cats

[rodimus prime]

Yeah, when I was broke I installed headers on my 98ss and didnt get it tuned until I added heads and a cam. Never had any problems.

[CamaroSpike23]

headers dont require a tune. you might not be running at optimum level compared to after the tune, but you dont need one to run headers, or an intake.

feel free to wait till you get the 2300 installed before you tune, wont damage anything.

[BAD BRAD]

i beg to differ i have had several vetts camaros even stangs almost ever one of the newer ones lets say mid 90s up the o2 and pcm readings trip code puts car into limp mode no performance after that do some checkin good tech or hard core mech will tell u any upgrade that changes hp will effect the ecm and parts like o2 sensors and mass air flow.

[alex33x]

Originally Posted by BAD BRAD

i beg to differ i have had several vetts camaros even stangs almost ever one of the newer ones lets say mid 90s up the o2 and pcm readings trip code puts car into limp mode no performance after that do some checkin good tech or hard core mech will tell u any upgrade that changes hp will effect the ecm and parts like o2 sensors and mass air flow.

I agree I wouldnt go without a tune, you can be running too rich which will result in engine damage or reduce its lifespan.

I ran long tube headers for about a month in my 07 mustang GT with no tune, when I got to the tuners I was either running lean or too rich in dangerous levels. Dont remember exactly which.

[Van]

Running lean I'd be concerned with, running rich not so much. When you add in parts that increase airflow, generally speaking you're going to run a little lean from what I can recall, no?

[Camar0wn3d]

Originally Posted by alex33x

I agree I wouldnt go without a tune, you can be running too rich which will result in engine damage or reduce its lifespan.

I ran long tube headers for about a month in my 07 mustang GT with no tune, when I got to the tuners I was either running lean or too rich in dangerous levels. Dont remember exactly which.

Something very important to remember is although the tuning software is SAYING you're running too lean, you may actually be running too rich. For example:

In HPTuners, red cells (on long term fuel trims) are seen by the ECU as being too lean. Therefore it adds fuel, and you are ACTUALLY running rich. Green cells are seen by the ECU as being too rich, therefore it reduces fuel, and you are ACTUALLY running lean.

What I found when I installed my headers on my LS1 without a tune was I was ACTUALLY running rich (red cells). The computer thought I was running lean due to the error effect of relocating the oxygen sensors which provide the feedback signal to the control system. All tuning is doing is re-calibrating the system to account for that error effect.

[shevyman]

now with something like this. it shouldn't matter. but i own the 05 tc and i learned when installing the intake header, and exhaust to unplug the battery let sit for about 5-10 mins the reconnect. that it will reset the ecu and then at about 100-150 miles it would have learned the diff air flow and fuel mix. so i am wondering if the new camaro has that or does that also

[CGM2SSRS]

Agreed completely. SK 360 makes a valid point. However, having a check engine light on always will mask another potential problem as well.
The poster that talked about tuners that will tune at a reduced charge or free is a good idea. As long as you do the leg work to make sure they are reliable and well qualified to touch your baby.
Bottom line. Get it tuned! Rich or lean can lead to warranty voided problems.

[SK360]

Originally Posted by BAD BRAD

i beg to differ i have had several vetts camaros even stangs almost ever one of the newer ones lets say mid 90s up the o2 and pcm readings trip code puts car into limp mode no performance after that do some checkin good tech or hard core mech will tell u any upgrade that changes hp will effect the ecm and parts like o2 sensors and mass air flow.

You will not trip limp mode with longtubes on an LSx Motor and stock tune, doesnt happen.

Originally Posted by wh0rsep0wer

Something very important to remember is although the tuning software is SAYING you're running too lean, you may actually be running too rich. For example:

In HPTuners, red cells (on long term fuel trims) are seen by the ECU as being too lean. Therefore it adds fuel, and you are ACTUALLY running rich. Green cells are seen by the ECU as being too rich, therefore it reduces fuel, and you are ACTUALLY running lean.

What I found when I installed my headers on my LS1 without a tune was I was ACTUALLY running rich (red cells). The computer thought I was running lean due to the error effect of relocating the oxygen sensors which provide the feedback signal to the control system. All tuning is doing is re-calibrating the system to account for that error effect.

Well that is how fuel trims work... if the O2s are bouncing higher then where they are calibrated to bounce around (14.7) then the car is running lean and the fuel trims go positive and fuel is added.

If the O2's are bouncing lower then the car is running rich, fuel trims go negative and fuel is subtracted.

The tuning software and the ECU will agree because they are reading the same values.

The ECU will add positive fuel trims into PE (WOT) But will not subtract negative trims, that is why when calibrating MAF/VE you want to shoot for slightly negative trims so that you are not adding fuel in PE.

[BOBSS]

You will run rich and you should be fine.