Looking to make a third gen racer

[crc91]

Thinking of picking up a cheap 5spd third gen preferably a later model. I plan to use it for open track days at NOLA motorsports. I'm going to be yanking out the old motor, in favor for either a 350 small block carburetor set up or An LS engine. I know with either set up I'll have to modify some things to get the swap right. My question to you guys is which would be more cost effective? I'm a college student so this will be a work in progress. Also would a rebuilt 5 speed be ok for track duty r should I just consider going with a t56 out of a 4th gen r something?

[Obsessive Camaro Disorder]

I can give you advice till my keyboard wears out. I have a 92 camaro RS that I started doing autoX and HPDE with 5 years ago now. Have done pretty well. Got 3rd place in V8 stock class last year. Started stock, 2 years ago I rebuilt the front and upgraded the front suspension, this year I'm doing an LS1/t56 swap and what I can afford to the rear suspension with the money from selling my donor cars left overs.

The later, the better with thirdgens i think. Whats your budget? I believe a couple best options for you to get started is to either get a 87-90 IROC or a 91-92 Z28 with the Tuned Port 305/T5 drivetrain. 1LE or B4C (expensive) and G92 would be nice options but you can easily mod beyond those options with the money you'll save without them. With one of these cars you'd be that much further ahead getting started. A set of gears, some bolts ons, CTW Motorsports wheels with some sticky tires and some suspension mods, you will be kicking some tail.

Option 2 is to get an 89-92 RS with either the 305TBI or V6 and a 5speed. Going this route will get you a car even cheaper. If you get the V8, the trans will work with other SBC's while if you get the V6 the trans input shaft is only 10 spline and won't work with a V8. V6 models are at or near 50/50 weight distribution. This route will start you further behind power wise which will only really effect you in the long straightways on the bigger tracks but believe me when I say if your a good driver you can make it up in the corners. You can find these with the same suspension as a Z28 (mine had Z28 suspension) and the 16x8 wheels. But if you plan on changing the drivetrain this is a good way to go and if you decide to go LS, the wiring harnesses are easier to convert than the TPI harness.

To answer your trans question, I would get a car with the 5 speed in it (unless you can find one with a t56 already in it) but only use the T5 as long as you have to. The borg warner t5 world class is only rated for 300 lbs of torque and there isn't any good or cost efficient upgrades for them. But already having a manual is easier when you go to a 6speed or tremec.

Want anymore info just ask. In the meantime heres a couple links to all the info you'll ever need to build a thidgen. Between the weight and the design, thirdgens are one of the best camaros, they just need a little help reaching their potential. Ever heard of the 92 SLP Firehawk (production option RPO B4U)? 23 years later, only the terminator cobra or a 5.0 Boss could probably beat it.
www.thirdgen.org <---anything you want to know about thirdgens, I mean ANYTHING! If you can think of it, its in there somewhere.
www.frrax.com <----- F-body Road Race and AutoX forum. Need to be a member to see anything. 3rd and 4th gen specific.

[crc91]

Wow man that's fantastic advice! I'd love I see a pic of yor ride. No I've never heard of the 92 slp fire hawk but I'll search it! I got a quote from blue print engines for a SBC 383 crate motor that makes 430 hp and 430 tq and I'm told it's strong throughout the entire RPM range. They want 5k for it and comes with a 2 year waranty

[woodside783]

are all the third gens steering box or did they have a rack and pinion in later 3 gens?
do you know the weight of one with a v8 5 speed?

i am looking a a third gen and making a track car out of it. Detroit Speed just came out with some 3rd gen parts in there book it is on page 38 or 28 in there catalog.

[FrostySS]

If you're set on a manual trans car take the advice of the first post. Buy a manual car and swap to a T56 when you can, the T5 is a pile of dog shit lol.

So do you want cheap or do you want to go fast? Pick on. IMO, in the long run, a LS swap is the way to go but will definitely chew up finds on the front end quicker than doing a built SBC.

Have you checked out www.thirdgen.org yet?

[Obsessive Camaro Disorder]

Originally Posted by crc91

Wow man that's fantastic advice! I'd love I see a pic of yor ride. No I've never heard of the 92 slp fire hawk but I'll search it! I got a quote from blue print engines for a SBC 383 crate motor that makes 430 hp and 430 tq and I'm told it's strong throughout the entire RPM range. They want 5k for it and comes with a 2 year waranty

Just a stock appearing 92 RS. The goodies are on the inside.
[IMG][/IMG]

It's hard to beat a warranty but an LS is hard to beat too. I'm doing an LS1/T56 swap here in the next couple months. Do more research before you go dumping that much power into a thirdgen. There are a lot of speed and time to be gained by just upgrading wheels, tires, and suspension. Not to mention bracing, like strut tower, subframe connectors, maybe a roll cage to handle the forces of cornering, or more power. I wouldn't say a T5 is junk but they DO NOT handle real power. You could put that 383 in front of one and baby it but who wants to do that? And that 10 bolt rear is weak too, putting it behind the LS1 in the 4thgens was a big mistake. Like I said, theres quite a bit you can and should do before putting that kind of power in a thirdgen road racer. You can still be competitive with the right mods, carrying more speed through the corners will make you faster than you think. I have outrun cars with over 400hp with my 180hp 305 because I carry more speed. Sure they gain more speed on the straights but they lose it all in corners cause they have to go slower than me. More power will be harder to control with stock suspension. Not to mention stock suspension will consist of 23+ year old rubber.

Originally Posted by woodside783

are all the third gens steering box or did they have a rack and pinion in later 3 gens?
do you know the weight of one with a v8 5 speed?

i am looking a a third gen and making a track car out of it. Detroit Speed just came out with some 3rd gen parts in there book it is on page 38 or 28 in there catalog.

yes, all thirdgens are steering box. Two biggest draw backs are the lack of ackerman and the frame rail the gearbox mounts too is weak. A wonder bar is an absolute must. IROC's got them stock, not sure about 91-92 Z28's but they are a cheap mod.

My car is street trim (full interior, no weight reduction), minus emissions, plus dynamat, and some stereo with V8/5speed, it weighs 3600 with me in it and I'm around 225lbs.

Don't get hung up on brand names with these thirdgens, best example I can give is Hotchkis. If I put Hotchkis in my 69 camaro it would be a major upgrade. If I put Hotchkis in my 92, its no better than stock. Ive compared the numbers. Hotchkis really dropped the ball with their thirdgen products. Ground Control Weight Jacks with Koni Yellows are best.

[crc91]

What makes the T5 so bad?

[Obsessive Camaro Disorder]

Originally Posted by crc91

What makes the T5 so bad?

It's just weak. The World Class Borg Warner T5 was only rated for 300 lbs of torque. This is why they never made a 5.7(350)TPI with a 5 speed. If you don't beat on it, it will last a LONG time. I should also add that an aftermarket shifter with stops (like a hurst or pro 5.0) will also prolong the life of a T5.

Read this.
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/trans...ything-we.html

[crc91]

Looking more into this today and I see the 5.3L truck motors are really cheap and there is info out there pertaining to the swap. I realize I'll need the sccessories from a F body to make things easier. Here is a picture of a motor I found just browsing. Let me know what you guys think.

[Obsessive Camaro Disorder]

Originally Posted by crc91

Looking more into this today and I see the 5.3L truck motors are really cheap and there is info out there pertaining to the swap. I realize I'll need the sccessories from a F body to make things easier. Here is a picture of a motor I found just browsing. Let me know what you guys think.

An LS is an LS. You can't go wrong. That price and a warranty is pretty good. There is a LS swap guide on thirdgen.org. Don't forget computer, wiring, exhaust, fuel system upgrade, and aftermarket engine and trans mounts. But I told you what I think about starting with the engine. You'll need a LS trans to go with that motor plus all the clutch assembly.

[crc91]

I know it looked like a pretty good deal to me. I think what I'm going to do is start collecting the parts first. Then once they are all collected I'll buy the car and hopefully be able to complete the swap. What are the widest rims and tires front and rear I can fit on the car with no rubbing? Anyone using a good set of coilovers?

[Obsessive Camaro Disorder]

You really need to spend some time on thirdgen.org.

DON'T use coil overs in the front. It moves the load to the strut towers that were never designed for it. Like I said above, Ground Control Weight Jacks are the ideal front springs for a thirdgen autoX/road race car. In the rear weight jacks or coil overs are recommended.

There isn't a clear answer on wheels and tires. 17x9.5" with 275/40r17's are all you can do without major custom modification but if you go up to 18" or larger, the rim will clear the steering knuckles and you can get up to 11" but fitting them can be tricky and requires rolled fenders. Most go with 10.5" wide with 295's. Thirdgens like a square setup, same size tires front and rear. Wider rear tires can cause understeer. Corvette wheels with bolt on spacers are common.

If your first mod is going to be a higher powered engine at least put good subframe connectors (UMI, BMR, or Alston), and a Top Down Solutions wonderbar in the car so you don't break it.

[crc91]

The goal right off that bat isn't to make a 700 hp monster or anything it's just getting the 5.3/t56 in the car and have it running good. I want to replace the little things and upgrade where i can. I've been viewing threads on third gen.org just haven't had time I sign up and become a member yet. I just want to get an idea of what I'm in for. From what I have gathered so far hawks third gen is going to be a major help in the swap. Now what is a better starting platform the iroc or the z/28?

[woodside783]

You can make good power out of the 5.3 it is what I was looking this for a motor for a third gen.