[BryceClark89]

Call me crazy but I'd love to be the crazy guy that goes out with his lotto money and strait up buys every v8 mustang and V8 camaro model from 2009 to current make sure all are on equal tire and gas ..drop them into the hands of professional driver and see where the hits land....I always wanted to see a ZL1 VS early GT500 "Before Trinity" similar power ..always wanted to see SS1LE VS Boss and Boss laguna Seca. ......And I must be the only one who wants to see 15"1LE VS 15"ZL1 VS 15"Z28 VS Full spec 16"2SS VS Full spec GTPP/GT350 and GT350R...NO BUT SERIOUSLY 16"2SS vs 16GT350

[Driski]

Not exactly what you are looking for but fun to watch. Should be a head 2 head before too long

[BryceClark89]

Yeah I saw this but they leave no conclusion as to which they feel is the truly better car. No clear cut answer "and the winner is. . ." I'd love to see the test data aswell.

[oldman]

I think you will find stock, and I was one of the first guys to own a LS1 Camaro, that from 1998 to 2001 the LS1 dominated bone stock. Even the Cobra R struggled (not at my local track). A good running LS1 was into the low 13s bone stock no mods. In general the Cobra was a high 13 to low 14s. There are guys back in the day with good air 12.9 claims but there were already free mods out by mid 98. My LS1 with converter + free mods did a 12.92 or GSCs and the m6 were faster given track prep and good air. The optional 3" exhaust was worth zero HP as GM crush bent it above the axle to 1/2 side, just like today!!!!

Nothing changed much, never saw a Cobra R at the tacks, and the GT Mustang at 215 to 260 HP was a bad joke. I called it the LS1 head twist since the LS1 and the 97 below Camaros came with black roofs the GT guys would pull forward and look at the headlights and when they saw the flush mounted 98 lights they would just back away slowly.

Ported stock tube exhaust manifolds, ported heads, lid, 3" exhaust with no crush over the axle, converter, and Nitto 555, and a mild cam I think it was a SLP, not many people were making cams or valve springs. I could do 12.7 in street trim, or course like all racers aka liars, I would always say bone stock.

Nothing changed at all for stock vs stock till the 2009 SRT came out. Finally I started to see a stock car that could at least compete with a "stock" LS1. The Mustang at this point was barely competitive and needed to be a manual with good hook, read drag radials. The 3 valve mod motor helped a lot but still 315 ish HP really did not work well. The LS1 continued to dominate and there were stokers, LS6 you name it in "stock" Camaros. I raced a few Sean Hyland prepped 5.4 and 4.6 and give DR they were in the mid to high 12s. That ain't much for $10K+ engines.

Now to your Cobra, I assume they are fast, few ever showed at the 1/4 mile, even less were actually prepped beyond maybe drop the rear tire pressure. Even fewer would go into the 12s, too much torque and too heavy of a car given summer hiperf tires.

Now this is at my local track not some fancy Houston or SA track with good air and prep.

IMO, and that is why I have a 2016 SS, this is 1998 all over. The LT1 is absolutely going to dominate over the next decade, it is just faster, cheaper, lighter, and more mod friendly. Look me and a bud can do headers, heads, cam, intake, TB, in a LS in two days in a garage with pizza and beer. It would take a shop a lift, en expert, special cradle jacks and twice as much $$$ to do the same to the 4v 5.0. The end results would be +100 to +150 HP for the LT1, I don't work on the 5.0 but gut feeling it would be half of that.

I come from the Challenger world, owning one and working on MANY since 2008. The engine is just too heavy and stuff is just too expensive and the chassis is completely overwhelmed by weight, plus tire size is limited front and back.

The state of the world is if you want to REAL fast for cheap: LT1.

Sure we are going to have the DR shod Cobra come in and claim his daily driver 100 miles up hill in the snow over lava is the real street scene... not. The real street is the Cobra with high perf all season Yoks trying to come to terms with 3900 lbs of car vs 3600 lbs LT1... So yes the internet maybe dominated by DR shod Cobra claims but the street scene is dominated by far more affordable cars that are doing it with lighter weight. Nothing at all has changed in 18 years! The Challenger is even in worst state at 4400+lbs and tire limited in back. Dodge is out of money and Ford is on a new platform just like the 6th gen. The handwriting is on the wall. It will be a Camaro dominated decade in terms of performance, affordable or otherwise.

Oh and my first performance car was a 1969 Z/28...

2015 SuperSnake
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ake-road-test/

vs Hotrod just did a 12.2 in a bone stock SS

[hotlap]

Nice write up oldman

[Swayse]

Originally Posted by oldman

I think you will find stock, and I was one of the first guys to own a LS1 Camaro, that from 1998 to 2001 the LS1 dominated bone stock. Even the Cobra R struggled (not at my local track). A good running LS1 was into the low 13s bone stock no mods. In general the Cobra was a high 13 to low 14s. There are guys back in the day with good air 12.9 claims but there were already free mods out by mid 98. My LS1 with converter + free mods did a 12.92 or GSCs and the m6 were faster given track prep and good air. The optional 3" exhaust was worth zero HP as GM crush bent it above the axle to 1/2 side, just like today!!!!

Nothing changed much, never saw a Cobra R at the tacks, and the GT Mustang at 215 to 260 HP was a bad joke. I called it the LS1 head twist since the LS1 and the 97 below Camaros came with black roofs the GT guys would pull forward and look at the headlights and when they saw the flush mounted 98 lights they would just back away slowly.

Ported stock tube exhaust manifolds, ported heads, lid, 3" exhaust with no crush over the axle, converter, and Nitto 555, and a mild cam I think it was a SLP, not many people were making cams or valve springs. I could do 12.7 in street trim, or course like all racers aka liars, I would always say bone stock.

Nothing changed at all for stock vs stock till the 2009 SRT came out. Finally I started to see a stock car that could at least compete with a "stock" LS1. The Mustang at this point was barely competitive and needed to be a manual with good hook, read drag radials. The 3 valve mod motor helped a lot but still 315 ish HP really did not work well. The LS1 continued to dominate and there were stokers, LS6 you name it in "stock" Camaros. I raced a few Sean Hyland prepped 5.4 and 4.6 and give DR they were in the mid to high 12s. That ain't much for $10K+ engines.

Now to your Cobra, I assume they are fast, few ever showed at the 1/4 mile, even less were actually prepped beyond maybe drop the rear tire pressure. Even fewer would go into the 12s, too much torque and too heavy of a car given summer hiperf tires.

Now this is at my local track not some fancy Houston or SA track with good air and prep.

IMO, and that is why I have a 2016 SS, this is 1998 all over. The LT1 is absolutely going to dominate over the next decade, it is just faster, cheaper, lighter, and more mod friendly. Look me and a bud can do headers, heads, cam, intake, TB, in a LS in two days in a garage with pizza and beer. It would take a shop a lift, en expert, special cradle jacks and twice as much $$$ to do the same to the 4v 5.0. The end results would be +100 to +150 HP for the LT1, I don't work on the 5.0 but gut feeling it would be half of that.

I come from the Challenger world, owning one and working on MANY since 2008. The engine is just too heavy and stuff is just too expensive and the chassis is completely overwhelmed by weight, plus tire size is limited front and back.

The state of the world is if you want to REAL fast for cheap: LT1.

Sure we are going to have the DR shod Cobra come in and claim his daily driver 100 miles up hill in the snow over lava is the real street scene... not. The real street is the Cobra with high perf all season Yoks trying to come to terms with 3900 lbs of car vs 3600 lbs LT1... So yes the internet maybe dominated by DR shod Cobra claims but the street scene is dominated by far more affordable cars that are doing it with lighter weight. Nothing at all has changed in 18 years! The Challenger is even in worst state at 4400+lbs and tire limited in back. Dodge is out of money and Ford is on a new platform just like the 6th gen. The handwriting is on the wall. It will be a Camaro dominated decade in terms of performance, affordable or otherwise.

Oh and my first performance car was a 1969 Z/28...

2015 SuperSnake
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ake-road-test/

vs Hotrod just did a 12.2 in a bone stock SS

Lol!! I've had 2 LS1 Trans Am cars and I remember picking on Mustang GT cars, I'd even pick on them in my modded Dodge Cummins. The GT was a pretty slow car, up until the coyote.

I was really tempted to get a 2016 Camaro SS, but I wanted something "now", and with the great deals and 0%, I bought a car to match my wife's mustang gt. My car is a Performance Package car with the Recaro seats and all the bells and whistles. With the news of the Camaro's performance, it pushed me to add headers and a tune, which I did on jack stands with no special tools or equipment. I might add an intake manifold, or just wait and do a 2.9 Whipple in a few years, not sure yet. The Coyote responds very well to mods, and it's a lot of fun planning and doing my own performance modifications. Being that everybody knows the mustang is slower again, is gonna make it even more fun to meet one on the streets.

[bseiter98]

I too had a LS1 in the form of a 1999 Camaro SS with all the SLP options. Loved that car! However, in 2013, I bought a Mustang GT Premium and that 5.0 walked over all stock Camaros. While the car was rated at 6 less horsepower than the recent 426hp Camaros, it weighed significantly less. I added a CAI and tuner for about $500 and was turning just over 400hp at the wheels. I have no complaints about that car, it was fun to drive.
Last week, I traded the Mustang in on a 2016 Camaro SS. The Camaro is awesome although I haven't really revved it above 3.5K yet. Thus far, it's better in many ways than the Mustang I had. However, those 5.0s in the 2011 to 2014 ran well and didn't have the added weight of the 2015 - 2016 Mustangs.

[oldman]

I should also note that "stock" has not changed in 40 years of racing. I had a 440 bored and stroke to 512 stuffed into a Signet, a 4 dr valliant aka Dart for you kids, I told everybody it was a 318 polysphere. I had a 401 stuffed into a Gremlin X with N50 in the back. Yep... stock 304. Heck I'd call my Challenger "stock" except for the supercharger handing off of it...LOL. I did think about the hidden turbo kit for a while.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Swayse

Lol!! I've had 2 LS1 Trans Am cars and I remember picking on Mustang GT cars, I'd even pick on them in my modded Dodge Cummins. The GT was a pretty slow car, up until the coyote.

Going on 20 years ago raced a VW TDI for a while, I used a euro PD variable venturi turbo, auto 11mm pump and 6 hole Italian injectors about 190 HP and 380 ft lbs to the wheel. I used to race Cummins guys all the time. I don't know why diesel guys NEED to race diesel guys. I loved absolutely destroying the VR6 and assorted winged Hondahs. Soot them to death.

I had VW engineers writing me that is was not possible to run that much HP and torque. Turns out Germans don't know Merican ingenuity caused the above HP list above is turn key nowdays. Of course the diesel trucks have taken a quantum leap in performance since then, especially in transmission longevity. I used to help my bud drop his trans every 6 months for a rebuild. As I recall it was as heavy as the engine...

One last story, I had an ongoing grudge with a 4.6 Cobra, she had full slicks, sponsorships etc. She got a 4.6 built Sean Hyland engine slipped in vs my cam, lid, home ported heads and sliced and ported exhaust manifold, home made lid. Last time I raced her she smoked me 12.20 vs 12.8... and she popped the rod thru the side of $10,000 engine same time.

The LS1 was and is so much more forgiving.. the most I've ever seen from a NA LS1, LS6 was bent push rods / valves. I did see a LS3 crate motor race car blow a rod thru the block at the last AutoX with I assume a 1st gear miss shift instead of 3rd. We were at a rented road race track, but running solo.

Heck last LS1 I rebuilt with 120,000 miles the bore was perfect, no human measurable runout using a three wheel bore gauge.