03-07-2017, 03:23 AM | #1 |
Dan
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS IOM Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Georgia, USA not the other one
Posts: 1,045
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Modifying ZL1 Pump
Wondering why upgrading the fuel pump in a 5th gen is so expensive.
I am from the Ford world. I bought my Camaro because they are so rare in the UK and that makes them more fun here than a new 5.0 GT... But modifying the fuel pumps in mustangs is so much cheaper. Why has no one made a simple setup to pull out the stock ZL1/1lE fuel pump and swap in a bigger pump? Back in the day I swapped a 390lph hour pump into my stock 5.0 mustang set up no sweat and under $400. What am I missing? Is it something in the engineering or is it designed in? No offence on these dual pump set ups but it seems overly pricey for what you actually get. My 1500HP turbo fuel set up on my foxbody as it sits now I pieced together for under a grand - I did do my own sump on the a new stock tank. As much as it seems that everyone is running at slighly above what ZL1 pump/FPCM can handle the next step up is >2x as much...
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Dan
2010 IOM SS YSI-B, Pat G Cam, Ported CTS-V Heads, ARH LTs MBRP 3" exhaust http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ysi |
03-07-2017, 04:22 AM | #2 | |
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I'm hearing you Racesloth, my Livernoise dual pump set up was $1600 Australian by the time it got here with our shitty exchange rate. |
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03-07-2017, 07:55 AM | #3 |
Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS "Diablo" Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 135
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I hate its super expensive but i will be going the zl1 route until i got all the supporting mods for 900hp.
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Diablo - 2013 Camaro 2SS
Mod List: GM NPP Dual mode exhaust(Fuse pulled), AGP Twin Turbo 54/57, ZL1 Fuel pump with flex fuel sensor, ADM FPCM, ID1000 Injectors, diamond racing forged pistons, BTR twin turbo cam stage 2, Lunati forged H beam rods, BTR trunnions, ARP head studs, Vararam power wedge, MightyMouse Wild catch can, PFADT 1.25" drop springs, BMR Strut tower brace, 20x10.5 Giovanna Mecca rear and 20x9 Giovanna Mecca fronts, R1 Concepts drilled and slotted rotors, Hawk HPS pads, Night Owl RGB halo kit, and more... Future Mods: Dual fuel pump and more... |
03-07-2017, 10:49 AM | #4 |
Master Amateur Mechanic
Drives: Victory Red 2011 2SS/RS Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,719
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went with zl1 pump at 606 hp. didn't switch to the squash dual return pump until I got a new engine/trans & twins
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2011 Victory Red 22/RS
Forged 418 Ls3 from Texas Speed, LSX heads from Texas Speed, Tick Turbo cam, Jakes/PCM/Billet 4l80e, 3200 Stall converter from Circle D, DSS 750 hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, stock 3.23 gears, TSW Wheels Front 20x10 Rear 20x11.5, Fabberage Twin Turbo Supercharger Killer kit with Upgraded Turbos, Squash Dual fuel pump, Full BMR Suspension/bushings, Holly High Rise intake manifold, ID1300 Injectors, Megan Coilovers, PCM of NC plug and play trans kit. HP/TQ TBA |
03-07-2017, 11:09 AM | #5 |
Drives: 2010 2SS, 2017 Silverado LTZ Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Denver,PA
Posts: 3,195
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I paid $278.00 for the fuel pump. It was a 4 hour job replacing the pump.
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2010 2SS/RS Victory Red, MN6, 1-7/8 Kooks LT Headers, SLP Axle Back, Edelbrock E-Force S/C, ZL1 Fuel Pump, 72# Injectors, JRE fuel rail upgrade, Roto-Fab CAI, Elite Catch Can, Billet Hurst Shifter, DSS 1000HP axles, Spohn Trailing Arms, Toe Links, Lower Control Arms. Chrome American Racing Torq-Thrust wheels. 546/rwhp & 522/rwtq & 10.9# boost Tune by Jeremy Formato.
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03-08-2017, 07:24 AM | #6 |
Dan
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS IOM Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Georgia, USA not the other one
Posts: 1,045
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No real answers to my question - Maybe those that know don't want to give it away. Or maybe the way it is managed in the ECU is too difficult for swaping the way we did on the foxbody 5.0's.
So I ordered a ZL1 Pump from gmpartsdirect for $236. I am going install it with FPCM for now. Then work with a friend who has an electrical engineering background to see what can be done with the stock fuel bucket to say, swap in two bosch 044's There has to be another way...
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Dan
2010 IOM SS YSI-B, Pat G Cam, Ported CTS-V Heads, ARH LTs MBRP 3" exhaust http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ysi Last edited by racesloth; 03-08-2017 at 07:38 AM. |
03-08-2017, 09:26 AM | #7 |
Drives: 2012 2SSRS Vert, Black w/M6 Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 1,265
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You can modify the stock pump hanger. However, the fuel system in the car is set up for no return with Pulse Width Modulation control, controlled by the ECM through the FPCM. You can't just swap in a pump or two and leave everything else. Aftermarket pumps also draw more current, so that would have to be dealt with as well, along with possibly not being compatible with PWM control. Then if the bucket is modified incorrectly, the venturi pump won't draw fuel from the other side of the tank.
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03-08-2017, 10:39 AM | #8 |
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I'm hearing you. I bought three pumps to do exactly what you are asking about. My choke point is exactly what 2012LS3VERT mentioned about the venturi pump. The PWM control is easy to work. I bought a Deatschwerks pump that is compatible with PWM, and the other two pumps are going to be controlled via HOBBS switches.
The stock fuel bucket will not fit all three pumps without modification, which i can do, I just haven't figured out a good solution for pulling the fuel from the driver side saddle tank. Open to suggestions..... -Scott |
03-08-2017, 11:26 AM | #9 |
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: MN
Posts: 1,177
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There is finally a mid price point option out there that maximizes the retrunless PWM system. Read here: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ight=Vaporworx
So you have the ZL1 pump and ADM FPCM as the $500ish option. Then you can do the Vaporworx with double pump for $1000ish. Then you have the full return squash for $2000ish. I wouldn't try to mess too hard with the ZL1 pump options. The ECM and FPCM have limitations and people have been trying for years and years to hack into it and make it work better. |
03-08-2017, 11:41 AM | #10 | ||
Captain Gingerbeard
Drives: 2012 IOM RS/SS 6MT Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: West Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 2,489
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Quote:
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Custom ordered 2012 6MT RS/SS on 11/25/2011. Picked up 01/31/12.
Pedders Coilovers, BMR trailing arms and toe-links, Prothane solid poly subframe bushings, JDP Motorsports rear upper control arm bushings, Texas Speed long-tube headers with 2" primaries, modified fully 3" Magnaflow competition catback. CAI cold-air intake. DBA rotors, Hawk pads. Quote:
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03-08-2017, 02:06 PM | #11 | |
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-Scott |
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03-08-2017, 03:21 PM | #12 |
Dan
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS IOM Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Georgia, USA not the other one
Posts: 1,045
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Since the ZL1 pump delivers 250lph at 65, I am wondering why someone has figured out a pump that can replace the pump in the ZL1 fuel pum basket/module that delivers 350lph at 65.... Ho hum....
Anyways just got done reading everything on the Vaporworx site - much appreciate their posting the data.
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Dan
2010 IOM SS YSI-B, Pat G Cam, Ported CTS-V Heads, ARH LTs MBRP 3" exhaust http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...&highlight=ysi |
03-16-2017, 11:42 PM | #13 | |
Drives: 1968 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: LA LA
Posts: 29
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We can do full PWM returnless on twin 450lph '267 Walbro pump arrangements as well. Unlike the factory fuel modules, the twin 450's need an in-line fine element filter.
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03-17-2017, 10:23 PM | #14 |
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I took my ZL1 pump and added twin walbro 450s. Cost me $300 to modify the pump. I went with a return style fuel setup. I bypassed the FPCM all together.
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MODS 6.0 forged iron block, TH400, B&M shifter, DSS axles & driveshaft, Viking / BMR suspension, Full custom fuel system with cell, Twin 76mm teriyaki tornados on 24lbs.
https://www.instagram.com/whoopa_ss/ |
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