Living with history

[larietrope]

You know how there's the modified crowd and the absolute, down to the most correct chalk mark, restoration people when it comes to a 69 Camaro, Chevelle, etc ?
I've noticed most are modifying their cars right away, just like the old days. Personalizing it is great but I'm wondering how many are getting rid of a stock part because they don't think they'll ever use/want it again.
Future restorers will be scrounging for stock air intakes and exhaust systems that we think are restrictive and bulky and ugly.
I'm at the age it won't matter to me but one day guys might be sitting around, or writing on forums like this, or reading magazine articles about just when was it on the old 2010 Camaro they're restoring, that GM dropped the GM insigna from the front fender and what's the cut off for the back up signal ?
And why was it on some models and not on others when the visibility in all cars was the same. We may be living the old days.

[2010 SSRS]

Barret Jackson in 25 years, the untouched low mileage SSRS Camaros will be taking in big money.

[SleepWarz]

the aqua blue metallic ones even more.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by 2010 SSRS

Barret Jackson in 25 years, the untouched low mileage SSRS Camaros will be taking in big money.

I hate to be a party pooper but no they won't.

There is a HUGE difference between then and now. First off there are a lot of people that seem to believe what you are saying and are parking cars in their garage to save for just such an occasion. I hear about it all the time, in fact the guy before me on the list at my dealer bought two, one to park and one to drive. So already you are gonna have far more of the number of low or no mileage cars out there. Secondly they are making tons of these cars as well, and the variations are far less common. Theres 30k plus cars that have the GM chicklet, and 50k plus that don't have backup sensors.

In the old days the idea of a car being worth anything past its useful life didn't pass through many people's minds, if any. Hence all the classics rotting away in barns cause the motor blew 20 years ago. The attitude back then was use it till its used up. That is what makes them rare and desireable. How many super low mileage classics do you ever really see? Very very few, most of even the high dollar cars are high dollar because they are matching and frame off restos.

Thats simply not the case these days, meeting people at shows there are a LOT of guys with new Camaros, Challengers, even Mustangs, that drive them occasionally with the thought that it will be worth something some day. There are just way to many of them, and too few variations, And just because something is rare (like the chicklets) doesn't make it desireable.

For example take the 1969 Plymouth Road Runner. Not a ton of variations so its a good comparison. A standard Road Runner (383) went for about $3800 in 1969. Today you can buy a mint frame off or low mile 383 Road Runner for about $35,000, thats a 921% increase. 162% of that is the inflation of the dollar over the past 40 years. The prices spiked a bit during the Muscle Car boom but have flattened out since then and are similar to 10 years ago. But that would mean that in 30-40 years the SS/RS would have to sell for $349,000 assuming inflation continues on that increase. Can you imagine spending that much for a car that there will be a multiple multiple larger supply of?

More modern day examples. A fully loaded 87 Buick Grand National of which only 20,000 were made sold for $17k max when new. Today, 22 years later, you can buy a low mileage example for about $17-20k. Hardly worth storing the car for 22 years. The 89 Turbo Trans Am was $29,000 when new and only 1,555 were made! You can pick up low mileage ones for $21,000 these days, with only the ultra low mileage ones commanding in the mid to high 20s. These cars are very desireable, far far more rare than the Camaro will ever be and yet their prices aren't even breaking their price when new, and in no way are showing any indication of a meteoric 921% rise. However a lot of people did save and park these cars when new, or only drive them on weekends etc, in the thought that they would be worth a lot one day.

Point being, drive the car, enjoy it, mod it, do whatever to it. Its not gonna fund your kid's college fund some day. And it likely never will.

[ChriSS84]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I hate to be a party pooper but no they won't.

There is a HUGE difference between then and now. First off there are a lot of people that seem to believe what you are saying and are parking cars in their garage to save for just such an occasion. I hear about it all the time, in fact the guy before me on the list at my dealer bought two, one to park and one to drive. So already you are gonna have far more of the number of low or no mileage cars out there. Secondly they are making tons of these cars as well, and the variations are far less common. Theres 30k plus cars that have the GM chicklet, and 50k plus that don't have backup sensors.

In the old days the idea of a car being worth anything past its useful life didn't pass through many people's minds, if any. Hence all the classics rotting away in barns cause the motor blew 20 years ago. The attitude back then was use it till its used up. That is what makes them rare and desireable. How many super low mileage classics do you ever really see? Very very few, most of even the high dollar cars are high dollar because they are matching and frame off restos.

Thats simply not the case these days, meeting people at shows there are a LOT of guys with new Camaros, Challengers, even Mustangs, that drive them occasionally with the thought that it will be worth something some day. There are just way to many of them, and too few variations, And just because something is rare (like the chicklets) doesn't make it desireable.

For example take the 1969 Plymouth Road Runner. Not a ton of variations so its a good comparison. A standard Road Runner (383) went for about $3800 in 1969. Today you can buy a mint frame off or low mile 383 Road Runner for about $35,000, thats a 921% increase. 162% of that is the inflation of the dollar over the past 40 years. The prices spiked a bit during the Muscle Car boom but have flattened out since then and are similar to 10 years ago. But that would mean that in 30-40 years the SS/RS would have to sell for $349,000 assuming inflation continues on that increase. Can you imagine spending that much for a car that there will be a multiple multiple larger supply of?

More modern day examples. A fully loaded 87 Buick Grand National of which only 20,000 were made sold for $17k max when new. Today, 22 years later, you can buy a low mileage example for about $17-20k. Hardly worth storing the car for 22 years. The 89 Turbo Trans Am was $29,000 when new and only 1,555 were made! You can pick up low mileage ones for $21,000 these days, with only the ultra low mileage ones commanding in the mid to high 20s. These cars are very desireable, far far more rare than the Camaro will ever be and yet their prices aren't even breaking their price when new, and in no way are showing any indication of a meteoric 921% rise. However a lot of people did save and park these cars when new, or only drive them on weekends etc, in the thought that they would be worth a lot one day.

Point being, drive the car, enjoy it, mod it, do whatever to it. Its not gonna fund your kid's college fund some day. And it likely never will.

I have to agree... Beat that F*!@er up...

[HDDAN]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I hate to be a party pooper but no they won't.

There is a HUGE difference between then and now. First off there are a lot of people that seem to believe what you are saying and are parking cars in their garage to save for just such an occasion. I hear about it all the time, in fact the guy before me on the list at my dealer bought two, one to park and one to drive. So already you are gonna have far more of the number of low or no mileage cars out there. Secondly they are making tons of these cars as well, and the variations are far less common. Theres 30k plus cars that have the GM chicklet, and 50k plus that don't have backup sensors.

In the old days the idea of a car being worth anything past its useful life didn't pass through many people's minds, if any. Hence all the classics rotting away in barns cause the motor blew 20 years ago. The attitude back then was use it till its used up. That is what makes them rare and desireable. How many super low mileage classics do you ever really see? Very very few, most of even the high dollar cars are high dollar because they are matching and frame off restos.

Thats simply not the case these days, meeting people at shows there are a LOT of guys with new Camaros, Challengers, even Mustangs, that drive them occasionally with the thought that it will be worth something some day. There are just way to many of them, and too few variations, And just because something is rare (like the chicklets) doesn't make it desireable.

For example take the 1969 Plymouth Road Runner. Not a ton of variations so its a good comparison. A standard Road Runner (383) went for about $3800 in 1969. Today you can buy a mint frame off or low mile 383 Road Runner for about $35,000, thats a 921% increase. 162% of that is the inflation of the dollar over the past 40 years. The prices spiked a bit during the Muscle Car boom but have flattened out since then and are similar to 10 years ago. But that would mean that in 30-40 years the SS/RS would have to sell for $349,000 assuming inflation continues on that increase. Can you imagine spending that much for a car that there will be a multiple multiple larger supply of?

More modern day examples. A fully loaded 87 Buick Grand National of which only 20,000 were made sold for $17k max when new. Today, 22 years later, you can buy a low mileage example for about $17-20k. Hardly worth storing the car for 22 years. The 89 Turbo Trans Am was $29,000 when new and only 1,555 were made! You can pick up low mileage ones for $21,000 these days, with only the ultra low mileage ones commanding in the mid to high 20s. These cars are very desireable, far far more rare than the Camaro will ever be and yet their prices aren't even breaking their price when new, and in no way are showing any indication of a meteoric 921% rise. However a lot of people did save and park these cars when new, or only drive them on weekends etc, in the thought that they would be worth a lot one day.

Point being, drive the car, enjoy it, mod it, do whatever to it. Its not gonna fund your kid's college fund some day. And it likely never will.

I agree completely. I had a freind who refered to his Harley as his investment. I told him that Harley-Davidson stock is an investment and Harley-Davidson motorcycles are toys to be ridden and enjoyed. I love my 2010 1SS, I enjoy the hell out of driving it and making an occasional street night at the local drag strip. When mine is worn out and tired, I will buy one of the "collector's items" that have been garaged for twenty years. When I go to a car show or motorcycle show (which I only go to when winter cabin fever kicks in) I have trouble grasping the concept of "show cars" or "trailer queen Harleys" These cars were built to be driven, not stored like some yuppie douche's trophy.

[navmaxlp]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I hate to be a party pooper but no they won't.

There is a HUGE difference between then and now. First off there are a lot of people that seem to believe what you are saying and are parking cars in their garage to save for just such an occasion. I hear about it all the time, in fact the guy before me on the list at my dealer bought two, one to park and one to drive. So already you are gonna have far more of the number of low or no mileage cars out there. Secondly they are making tons of these cars as well, and the variations are far less common. Theres 30k plus cars that have the GM chicklet, and 50k plus that don't have backup sensors.

In the old days the idea of a car being worth anything past its useful life didn't pass through many people's minds, if any. Hence all the classics rotting away in barns cause the motor blew 20 years ago. The attitude back then was use it till its used up. That is what makes them rare and desireable. How many super low mileage classics do you ever really see? Very very few, most of even the high dollar cars are high dollar because they are matching and frame off restos.

Thats simply not the case these days, meeting people at shows there are a LOT of guys with new Camaros, Challengers, even Mustangs, that drive them occasionally with the thought that it will be worth something some day. There are just way to many of them, and too few variations, And just because something is rare (like the chicklets) doesn't make it desireable.

For example take the 1969 Plymouth Road Runner. Not a ton of variations so its a good comparison. A standard Road Runner (383) went for about $3800 in 1969. Today you can buy a mint frame off or low mile 383 Road Runner for about $35,000, thats a 921% increase. 162% of that is the inflation of the dollar over the past 40 years. The prices spiked a bit during the Muscle Car boom but have flattened out since then and are similar to 10 years ago. But that would mean that in 30-40 years the SS/RS would have to sell for $349,000 assuming inflation continues on that increase. Can you imagine spending that much for a car that there will be a multiple multiple larger supply of?

More modern day examples. A fully loaded 87 Buick Grand National of which only 20,000 were made sold for $17k max when new. Today, 22 years later, you can buy a low mileage example for about $17-20k. Hardly worth storing the car for 22 years. The 89 Turbo Trans Am was $29,000 when new and only 1,555 were made! You can pick up low mileage ones for $21,000 these days, with only the ultra low mileage ones commanding in the mid to high 20s. These cars are very desireable, far far more rare than the Camaro will ever be and yet their prices aren't even breaking their price when new, and in no way are showing any indication of a meteoric 921% rise. However a lot of people did save and park these cars when new, or only drive them on weekends etc, in the thought that they would be worth a lot one day.

Point being, drive the car, enjoy it, mod it, do whatever to it. Its not gonna fund your kid's college fund some day. And it likely never will.

I have to respectfully disagree. The argument that there are a lot of these being made doesn't make sense. How many 69 were made? A whole lot of them. There were also more options on the 69. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the 69 had more available options than any other car ever made (I believe 90 something options). The 69 camaros are worth more because they are rare now, true, but more importantly, they are worth more because they were iconic. Arguably more iconic than any other car of it's day. The 2010 camaro is the same car. It is arguably more iconic than any other car in recent history and it's going to be hard to come up with a more identifiable car anytime soon. I'm not going to say the camaro is the car that saved GM but it had a huge part in it. Every child you see knows the camaro as Bumblebee. These two things make the car special. Special cars are the ones people will look for in twenty years. Sure the challenger and the mustang will go for decent prices but, the camaro, even to a casual observer will bring in much higher figures. That doesn't even include the Nickey Chicagos and all the other professionally modded models.

The prices the classics are bringing in right now are huge. If you went back to 69 and told someone they could sell a camaro for close to $500,000 if they bought the right one, they would laugh and call you crazy. Doesn't make it untrue.

The other thing is, even though many people are claiming they will keep good care of their 2010, many won't. Accidents, long term use, lack of long term interest, all of these things will lead to owners allowing theirs fall into disrepair. People starting with the best of intentions will run into extenuating circumstances. I've already seen people on this board having to sell theirs for one reason or another. We've all seen the accident photos. I'm not saying this is going to be a super rare car in the future but honestly, the 69 isn't that rare either. Every auction I've ever seen has had a healthy supply of them and I've yet to see the same camaro twice. Prices range from 30k all the way up to over 500k. The difference in those is rarity.

And while I believe you that there are people out there buying one to drive and one to park, my assumption is that that is an extremely rare case. And what enthusiast will be able to let a camaro sit there in a garage and not drive it every so often. In 40 years, if a car doesn't have almost 100k miles on it, it will be very rare. Find one with below 50k and you're talking very very rare. Hell I got a car that's 3 years old with 95k on it right now. And, though I agree that the mindset back then was to drive it till it's used up, I don't think that necessarily applies to muscle cars. These were cars that appealed to an enthusiast crowd. People who loved their cars enough to spend extra time, money and energy making their cars even more special. Someone like that doesn't just throw the car away eventually. Especially the camaro. This car was made for those who couldn't afford the higher dollar muscle cars. The muscle car for every man. Not the type of car to be dismissed quickly.

In the end, 40 years from now, an iconic, rare car is the one that's going to bring in the big numbers. Right now, I challenge anyone to show me a more iconic, rare car than a low vin#, Nickey Chicago modded camaro.

Just an opinion

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by HDDAN

I agree completely. I had a freind who refered to his Harley as his investment. I told him that Harley-Davidson stock is an investment and Harley-Davidson motorcycles are toys to be ridden and enjoyed. I love my 2010 1SS, I enjoy the hell out of driving it and making an occasional street night at the local drag strip. When mine is worn out and tired, I will buy one of the "collector's items" that have been garaged for twenty years. When I go to a car show or motorcycle show (which I only go to when winter cabin fever kicks in) I have trouble grasping the concept of "show cars" or "trailer queen Harleys" These cars were built to be driven, not stored like some yuppie douche's trophy.

Haha Its funny you mention Harleys. I sell Cars and Motorcycles for people on eBay as a side business. For some strange reason Harley owners (I'm talkin about the guys that buy them and ride them one saturday a month in the summer) seem to think that the bikes appreciate over time. Yes because I would want your low end 2 year old Sportster 883 with 1,000 miles on it for higher than if I bought the same exact bike at the Harley dealer down the road new... Someone missed the concept of mass production....

I've never actually sold one because the guys seem to get insulted when I advise them on how much the bike is really worth and what I would reccomend selling it for.

[ffrcobra_65]

Keep in mind, the 60s and early 70's cars are fetching high $$ at auctions because the folks that are buying them grew up or were kids in that era where Muscle Cars were kings of the road. MOST of the people 40 years from now are/will have been the children of the Green era who likely were raised by green-concious parents which will make them highly unlikely to put high $$ value on any a 40 year old gas guzzling car. If you are in your 20's, go buy a Prius and stick it in a barn, it will be your retirement fund.

[Angrybird 12]

i was watching the MECUM auction the other night, and watched a 1968 Shelby GT500 go for 44K, right behind it was a 69 Chevelle SS396 that went for 44K a few cars later a 1969 Camaro Yenko went for over 100K. A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay on that particular day... What sells for 44K today may sell to someone else for 60K tomorrow.. same car different buyers... You can't judge any series of cars worth just by what one sells for today.

[navmaxlp]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Keep in mind, the 60s and early 70's cars are fetching high $$ at auctions because the folks that are buying them grew up or were kids in that era where Muscle Cars were kings of the road. MOST of the people 40 years from now are/will have been the children of the Green era who likely were raised by green-concious parents which will make them highly unlikely to put high $$ value on any a 40 year old gas guzzling car. If you are in your 20's, go buy a Prius and stick it in a barn, it will be your retirement fund.

True but are any of our children in that group? I live in a pretty green conscious area and I'd be willing to bet all the kids around here would rather have a camaro than a prius. All the kids today are going to remember this car as Bumblebee. The day a Prius gains that kind of status is the day the muscle car dies.

[navmaxlp]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

i was watching the MECUM auction the other night, and watched a 1968 Shelby GT500 go for 44K, right behind it was a 69 Chevelle SS396 that went for 44K a few cars later a 1969 Camaro Yenko went for over 100K. A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay on that particular day... What sells for 44K today may sell to someone else for 60K tomorrow.. same car different buyers... You can't judge any series of cars worth just by what one sells for today.

I agree 100%

[Darth_Emma]

I'm planning to keep my 2SS RS until I die. So, I d on't really care what it will be worth.

[73camarolt]

Originally Posted by navmaxlp

True but are any of our children in that group? I live in a pretty green conscious area and I'd be willing to bet all the kids around here would rather have a camaro than a prius. All the kids today are going to remember this car as Bumblebee. The day a Prius gains that kind of status is the day the muscle car dies.

I am only 15 and i already when i get older the only thing i want is a camaro. It is actually funny you say people around you to because i am in Gaithersburg MD lol. But yea these cars might go up alittle bit but i dont expect crazy numbers like 69 Yenkos and COPOS