Expected Pad Wear Rate - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Biergut · 09-11-2019, 09:04 AM

Morning,

Need opinions on whether I get another three days from a brand new set of pads OR whether these rotors will burn up the pads in a day.

$900 for a new set is fine with me IF I can get the best part of a 3 day event. If your opinion, however, is that they'll just eat a set in a day -- well then I'll just put that $900 toward the Giro or AP Racing set-up I'll go to over the winter. This is the first experience I've ever had with ceramics.

Stray observations so we don't get irrelevant replies:

• The rotors have 6 days on them (all Watkins Glen)
• Pads will be (and have been) Pagid RSC-1 (made for ceramics)
• The Z/28 runs on slicks
• I've been racing and/or driving track for 27 years
• The next track will be Summit Point (high HP and big brake zones)
• Obviously, need the opinions of guys with track experience w/ceramics

Thanks

zcarczar · 09-11-2019, 04:26 PM

If I recall correctly, you'll need to weigh them to see how much life is left in them. I don't think "looking" at them is the correct process here.

serviceguy · 09-11-2019, 09:39 PM

I'd contact Brembo tech assistance, I know you have to weight these ceramic rotors to determine replacement or not.

Supercup · 09-11-2019, 10:25 PM

Hi,

Here is a link to a thread you should review. You might want to PM Russ (car owner) who is very knowledgeable and has lots of track time on his ceramics then his change out as noted in this linked thread

link: https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...ghlight=brakes

I am also a long time track person with a lot of track and racing exerience. I would not risk running rotors that are close to done - you are risking not only you and your car, but those around you - not worth it to get a few more sessions in - again - I say that if you are not sure if they are good to go or not.

The only way you can validate your rotors still have life left is to weigh them as noted above. If you can validate they are good to go, then by all means put on new pads and have at it.

Another test (for steel) may or may not apply here - looking for cracks in the rotors that are connecting the holes in steel rotors is a sign it is time to make a change. At a minimum I would clean out all the brake dust you can, clear the holes and blow out with air pressure the holes to get the dust out and help keep the heat build up down. Remember if you are going to blow them out use a mask, so you don't breath in that dust - it won't be good for you down the line.

What is hard to tell from the photos if those are surface ruts on the rotors or just brake dust caked on - if you have pieces of the surface rutted out, you have less surface for your pads to grab.

Be safe and have fun!

Barefoot Dave · 09-12-2019, 05:14 AM

Biergut,

Based on my experience with my car and Summit Point-I’m an instructor there with many groups -there is no way you’ll get three full days out of those pads and rotors safely. Last year alone I went through six rotors and six sets of pads-when the rotors look like that they would eat the pads up in less than one day. I went to Girodisc with ST 43‘s and haven't looked back-so far they have lasted me more than 30 track days including some days on Pit Race and Watkins Glen along with 20+ at Summit Point.

Safety first, don’t risk it in my opinion.

What event will you be running at SP?

Biergut · 09-12-2019, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefoot Dave

Biergut,

Based on my experience with my car and Summit point-I’m an instructor there with many groups -there is no way you’ll get three full days out of those pads and rotors safely. Last year alone I went through six rotors and six sets of pads-when the rotors look like that they would eat the pads up in less than one day. I went to Girodisc with ST 43‘s and have looked back-so far they have lasted me more than 30 track days including some days on pit race and Watkins Glen along with 20+ at summit point.

Safety first, don’t risk it in my opinion.

What eveny will you be running at SP?

Barefoot,

Thanks -- just what I was looking for and as I expected. The surface is pretty chewed up, but glad to get your experienced opinion. I'll be going with either AP Racing's set up like I did on a Corvette race car or just try the GiroDisc set up. It's encouraging to hear you've been happy with GiroDisc for track use. I like the fact I wouldn't have to deal with new calipers. (Side note -- I was however surprised at the pad taper with the OEM Brembo calipers...)

I usually try to get to the Riesentoter PCA Summit event in October. Temps are usually still warm there and it's an awesome old-time track. I have also run the Metro NY event there during the first weekend in November.

Thanks to everyone for helping to cement a decision... new brake set up!

- BierGut

Barefoot Dave · 09-13-2019, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biergut

Barefoot,

Thanks -- just what I was looking for and as I expected. The surface is pretty chewed up, but glad to get your experienced opinion. I'll be going with either AP Racing's set up like I did on a Corvette race car or just try the GiroDisc set up. It's encouraging to hear you've been happy with GiroDisc for track use. I like the fact I wouldn't have to deal with new calipers. (Side note -- I was however surprised at the pad taper with the OEM Brembo calipers...)

I usually try to get to the Riesentoter PCA Summit event in October. Temps are usually still warm there and it's an awesome old-time track. I have also run the Metro NY event there during the first weekend in November.

Thanks to everyone for helping to cement a decision... new brake set up!

- BierGut

PM me when you know which event you'll be there with for sure.

Hooks112 · 09-14-2019, 01:50 AM

BierGut -

Just to confirm, you only have 6 track days on these rotors? I was just watching some racing at Watkins on the boob tube tonight and it certainly looks fast. Any good video posts from the track? Kinda far from Colorado, but on the wish list of drives for sure.

How many sets of pads have you been thru during these rotors?

I've only tracked the Z about 1.5 days, trying to judge what I can expect for wear.

Hoping you weigh the old rotors and post your findings.

I run ST 45/43's in the other car. Pretty amazing once they are warmed up.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Biergut · 09-16-2019, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooks112

BierGut -

Just to confirm, you only have 6 track days on these rotors? I was just watching some racing at Watkins on the boob tube tonight and it certainly looks fast. Any good video posts from the track? Kinda far from Colorado, but on the wish list of drives for sure.

How many sets of pads have you been thru during these rotors?

I've only tracked the Z about 1.5 days, trying to judge what I can expect for wear.

Hoping you weigh the old rotors and post your findings.

I run ST 45/43's in the other car. Pretty amazing once they are warmed up.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Yes, Watkins Glen is fast with a couple of real haul-down turns. High average speed track – I love it.

I went through 1.5 sets of pads. I did a couple of days on the OEMs and then switched to Pagid RSC-1 pads. (Their CCM pad) I learned that once the Pagids get to 6mm -- they are done. If you continue to run hard with them beyond that they just disappear and really beat the rotors. Lesson learned. I won’t be weighing the rotors – just moving on.

When I bought the car my fellow track mates and I discussed at great length whether I should try the ceramics or remove and just go to iron rotors before hitting the track. Hindsight is 20/20. If you really push the ceramics they will not last. I've had cars with the full AP Racing kit and those rotors lasted 6 days... I'm okay with that if the rotors are $300-400 per... not $1300.

My wife, who also drives on track, could most likely drive the ceramics for years and years... she just doesn't get them to that critical temp that starts to break them down. Again, my mistake was not changing out the pads in time. They got too thin and transferred too much heat to the rotors and did all the damage in short order. It's unfortunate that the OEM pad thickness is only 10mm thereby really only giving you 5mm of pad to play with. (if you brake aggressively) Knowing now what I know I would have thrown away the pads after three days, or about 5 or 6mm. I believe this would have allowed the rotors to last longer... how much I can't say. I don’t know what that critical temp is, but the folks at GiroDisc eluded to it even before I hit the track with the ceramics.

I am now considering different iron rotor options. I still need to decide on whether I keep the OEM Brembo calipers or change them as well. I also had more pad taper than I expected, so there is not super rigidity in the stock Brembo set up. (for really serious, prolonged hard track work)

If I had bags of money I might try the ceramics again and just keep fairly thick pads in them to see how long I could make them work. I absolutely loved the way the car stopped and never faded. It's just a cost thing and I went too far…

- BierGut

09-11-2019, 09:04 AM	#1
Biergut Drives: '15 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: NJ Posts: 412	Expected Pad Wear Rate Morning, Need opinions on whether I get another three days from a brand new set of pads OR whether these rotors will burn up the pads in a day. $900 for a new set is fine with me IF I can get the best part of a 3 day event. If your opinion, however, is that they'll just eat a set in a day -- well then I'll just put that $900 toward the Giro or AP Racing set-up I'll go to over the winter. This is the first experience I've ever had with ceramics. Stray observations so we don't get irrelevant replies: • The rotors have 6 days on them (all Watkins Glen) • Pads will be (and have been) Pagid RSC-1 (made for ceramics) • The Z/28 runs on slicks • I've been racing and/or driving track for 27 years • The next track will be Summit Point (high HP and big brake zones) • Obviously, need the opinions of guys with track experience w/ceramics Thanks Last edited by Biergut; 01-09-2023 at 01:05 PM.

09-12-2019, 05:14 AM	#5
Barefoot Dave Barefoot Dave Drives: 2021 ZLE & 2022 2SS 1LE Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Fairfax VA Posts: 164	Biergut, Based on my experience with my car and Summit Point-I’m an instructor there with many groups -there is no way you’ll get three full days out of those pads and rotors safely. Last year alone I went through six rotors and six sets of pads-when the rotors look like that they would eat the pads up in less than one day. I went to Girodisc with ST 43‘s and haven't looked back-so far they have lasted me more than 30 track days including some days on Pit Race and Watkins Glen along with 20+ at Summit Point. Safety first, don’t risk it in my opinion. What event will you be running at SP? __________________ Dave M Last edited by Barefoot Dave; 09-13-2019 at 09:58 AM.

09-11-2019, 04:26 PM	#2
zcarczar Drives: 15 Z/28 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: So Cal Posts: 262	If I recall correctly, you'll need to weigh them to see how much life is left in them. I don't think "looking" at them is the correct process here.

09-11-2019, 09:39 PM	#3
serviceguy Drives: 2014 Z/28 # 89, 69 Camaro, 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Flint MI Posts: 669	I'd contact Brembo tech assistance, I know you have to weight these ceramic rotors to determine replacement or not.

09-11-2019, 10:25 PM	#4
Supercup Life Is Short Enjoy It! Drives: Former Owner 15 Z/28 #934 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: S. Cal Posts: 897	Hi, Here is a link to a thread you should review. You might want to PM Russ (car owner) who is very knowledgeable and has lots of track time on his ceramics then his change out as noted in this linked thread link: https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...ghlight=brakes I am also a long time track person with a lot of track and racing exerience. I would not risk running rotors that are close to done - you are risking not only you and your car, but those around you - not worth it to get a few more sessions in - again - I say that if you are not sure if they are good to go or not. The only way you can validate your rotors still have life left is to weigh them as noted above. If you can validate they are good to go, then by all means put on new pads and have at it. Another test (for steel) may or may not apply here - looking for cracks in the rotors that are connecting the holes in steel rotors is a sign it is time to make a change. At a minimum I would clean out all the brake dust you can, clear the holes and blow out with air pressure the holes to get the dust out and help keep the heat build up down. Remember if you are going to blow them out use a mask, so you don't breath in that dust - it won't be good for you down the line. What is hard to tell from the photos if those are surface ruts on the rotors or just brake dust caked on - if you have pieces of the surface rutted out, you have less surface for your pads to grab. Be safe and have fun!

09-14-2019, 01:50 AM	#8
Hooks112 Drives: '15 Z/28 #698(A/C,AW) & other stuff Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Bumphuque Colorado Posts: 72	BierGut - Just to confirm, you only have 6 track days on these rotors? I was just watching some racing at Watkins on the boob tube tonight and it certainly looks fast. Any good video posts from the track? Kinda far from Colorado, but on the wish list of drives for sure. How many sets of pads have you been thru during these rotors? I've only tracked the Z about 1.5 days, trying to judge what I can expect for wear. Hoping you weigh the old rotors and post your findings. I run ST 45/43's in the other car. Pretty amazing once they are warmed up. Good luck and keep us posted.