Engine Blown. Moral Delimma, Advice? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

mattbatt · 05-21-2020, 07:14 PM

I appreciate any advice.

Backstory
I recently sold my 2011 Camaro 2SS RS with 117,000 miles. Babied it it's entire life, I never had a problem until March 2020. I started it, oil pump said "no pressure" and had it towed to dealer (it ran less than 5 seconds).

After negotiating with GM and dealer, I paid $1,500 and it was fully replaced with 24,000 mile warranty.

I had a great experience selling it, we negotiated on a fair price. Ironically, on the same day he bought it, the starter went out. I offered to pay, he said "It's ok, things happen."

Problem
A month later, today, I get a FB message saying the entire engine blew. He is very upset.

I'm trying to find out info, I call the dealer. The cam bearings and lifters went out and he opted to pay $13,000 for a new engine. He says I never told him about the oil pump repair, I sent screenshots of FB message that I did - along with the warranty info.

Dealer says warranty only covers oil pump not this. We don't know how he drove it, what happened.

So what would you do? I feel horrible and I look like a shyster selling a lemon. Again, I NEVER had any issues with the car and I always had dealer do all oil changes and work. No tunes, no aftermarket engine builds.

No track days.

Nothing.

Thanks.

InFiD3ViL · 05-21-2020, 07:46 PM

That's not your car anymore man. I hate to come off like an ass, but it's the truth. You did not knowingly sell a car with known engine problems. I know you feel bad, but what can you really do about something like this? When you buy a used car without a warranty you take a known risk. 'As-Is' means as-is. You did not knowingly misrepresent that car and it's condition from what you say. Besides, who knows how that car was driven after you sold it? There is no way he can prove that the oil pump issue is what caused this. I totally get his reasoning, but still...no warranty and 117k miles.

But $13,000? WTF is he having put in, a used LS9?! A brand new LS3 is ±$7000 and an L99 a little bit less. That is $6000 in labor. Disgusting. That is likely more than a 2011 SS is worth with 117,000 miles.

As I said above, that is not your car anymore. If you are in a position to be able to help the guy in any way, then that's between you guys. But I know if I was in his shoes that I would be told to pound sand.

pyroguy · 05-21-2020, 07:52 PM

I feel bad saying it, but buyer beware. No you didn't knowingly sell him a car that was faulty, but they bought it and it's their problem. Sucks for them, but it was a used car with 100k+ miles.

I sold a car with 150k+ miles, had it checked out the morning I sold it and it passed state inspection, but I got a call a couple weeks later telling me the brakes were shot, the belt was shot, and they were wondering what I was going to do about it. Ultimately the brakes were reasonably new and the belt was in great shape so someone was taking them for their money and I believe your buyer is in a similar boat. Move on and don't lose sleep over it.

InFiD3ViL · 05-21-2020, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyroguy

I feel bad saying it...

It's normal to feel that way, as I do as well. It's just a crappy situation, and I do not envy the OP or the guy who bought his car. There's no winner here unfortunately.

As long as the OP is 100% honest about the previous disclosure of the oil pump his conscience should be clear. Even if he wasn't, the buyer still has a long way to go to prove it was the cause.

Greenhornet2 · 05-21-2020, 08:29 PM

You fixed the car and it was running without issue. You had no reason to believe there was a problem. You offered to help with the starter, showed good faith. As long as oil pressure was good after the pump was done and you didn't try to cover anything up my opinion is you have no responsibility here. Used car 117k miles, shit happens. My response would be that i'm sorry for your luck but it was a used car and things happen i had no reason to believe there were any issues with the car. It sucks, I'd feel bad too but it is what it is.

BehindBlueI's · 05-21-2020, 09:33 PM

You didn't offer to warranty the car for him after the sale. You didn't know an issue was coming. You don't even know if it's not something stupid he did.

I don't see the dilemma.

CamaroBarb · 05-21-2020, 10:35 PM

No ones at fault here, Its a car and you're not a dealer. Thats why dealers get more for the cars they sell, they usually offer some kind of limited warranty just for such events like this. Dealers also have the resources to cover things like this and have a contract with you to do right. You have no obligation at all unless you lied or hide something. He could have bought a aftermarket warranty and been good to go. Thats not your concern. I'd tell him sorry to hear your trouble but can't help. I honestly don't think anyone in your situation would.

FasNuf · 05-21-2020, 11:45 PM

Good grief he had it a month!. Sounds like maybe something he did.
forget about it.

RupertPupkin · 05-22-2020, 12:00 AM

You got a bill of sale that says “as is”, then you’re good. I sold my modded G8 with 113k miles (original owner), less than 5k miles later lifter failed, and tore the cam up. Buyer just told me about it, but he didn’t expect me to pay for the damn thing. Biggest difference was he tracked it, while I didn’t...

Mattbatt.... you’re shady. Lol

Russell James · 05-22-2020, 06:52 AM

I would just say, sorry to hear and I can't explain why that happened... I always maintained the car. I'm not a warranty company, I can't warranty a used car that I sold as is.

Being a shyster is misrepresenting something... like a previous salvage title, stolen and VIN swapped.... You didn't misrepresent anything. It's a car, they break down.

mattbatt · 05-26-2020, 01:14 PM

Thank you all! Very good advice. I appreciate this community a ton

Axe55 · 05-26-2020, 01:31 PM

I understand why you feel bad, but I agree with what everyone has already said, it's not your fault. I've bought and sold used cars, and it's always buyer beware. I've bought cars and had issues with them within the first month, and I didn't even let the person who sold it know, I knew what I was getting into when I bought it used.

Also, if he tried to tell you you never told him about the oil pump and you've got the screenshots of the messages to prove it... sounds like he might be the one trying to take advantage of you.

BIG'UN · 05-27-2020, 08:45 AM

Not to sound like an ass. When i sell a car I always represent the car as it is, look at it, drive it, make your own decision. When they ask me if i'll guarantee anything. I always give the same answer,

Quote:

"I won't guarantee it to make it out of my driveway, you bought it, it's yours".

Nothing personal just business.

05-21-2020, 07:14 PM	#1
mattbatt Drives: 2019 SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: CA Posts: 100	Engine Blown. Moral Delimma, Advice? I appreciate any advice. Backstory I recently sold my 2011 Camaro 2SS RS with 117,000 miles. Babied it it's entire life, I never had a problem until March 2020. I started it, oil pump said "no pressure" and had it towed to dealer (it ran less than 5 seconds). After negotiating with GM and dealer, I paid $1,500 and it was fully replaced with 24,000 mile warranty. I had a great experience selling it, we negotiated on a fair price. Ironically, on the same day he bought it, the starter went out. I offered to pay, he said "It's ok, things happen." Problem A month later, today, I get a FB message saying the entire engine blew. He is very upset. I'm trying to find out info, I call the dealer. The cam bearings and lifters went out and he opted to pay $13,000 for a new engine. He says I never told him about the oil pump repair, I sent screenshots of FB message that I did - along with the warranty info. Dealer says warranty only covers oil pump not this. We don't know how he drove it, what happened. So what would you do? I feel horrible and I look like a shyster selling a lemon. Again, I NEVER had any issues with the car and I always had dealer do all oil changes and work. No tunes, no aftermarket engine builds. No track days. Nothing. Thanks. __________________ 2011 2SS, RS, stripes, Cold Air Inductions, Stainless Retro Chambered 3", Boston Acoustics with Alpine 2x12" SWR type R Subs, Alpine MRX-M100 1,000 Watt RMS amp, P13W LED Daytime Fog Lights, debadged 2019 SS 1LE, Shock

05-21-2020, 07:46 PM	#2
InFiD3ViL Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Spring Hill, FL Posts: 4,586	That's not your car anymore man. I hate to come off like an ass, but it's the truth. You did not knowingly sell a car with known engine problems. I know you feel bad, but what can you really do about something like this? When you buy a used car without a warranty you take a known risk. 'As-Is' means as-is. You did not knowingly misrepresent that car and it's condition from what you say. Besides, who knows how that car was driven after you sold it? There is no way he can prove that the oil pump issue is what caused this. I totally get his reasoning, but still...no warranty and 117k miles. But $13,000? WTF is he having put in, a used LS9?! A brand new LS3 is ±$7000 and an L99 a little bit less. That is $6000 in labor. Disgusting. That is likely more than a 2011 SS is worth with 117,000 miles. As I said above, that is not your car anymore. If you are in a position to be able to help the guy in any way, then that's between you guys. But I know if I was in his shoes that I would be told to pound sand. __________________ 2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI

05-21-2020, 07:52 PM	#3
pyroguy Started#gottalovethatblue Drives: ABM #831 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: TN Posts: 6,941 View My Garage	I feel bad saying it, but buyer beware. No you didn't knowingly sell him a car that was faulty, but they bought it and it's their problem. Sucks for them, but it was a used car with 100k+ miles. I sold a car with 150k+ miles, had it checked out the morning I sold it and it passed state inspection, but I got a call a couple weeks later telling me the brakes were shot, the belt was shot, and they were wondering what I was going to do about it. Ultimately the brakes were reasonably new and the belt was in great shape so someone was taking them for their money and I believe your buyer is in a similar boat. Move on and don't lose sleep over it. __________________ '10 Camaro 2SS/RS \| Aqua Blue #831 of 3,903 \| Silver Stripes Check out my build thread

05-21-2020, 08:29 PM	#5
Greenhornet2 Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS LS3 Whipple Join Date: May 2019 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,925	You fixed the car and it was running without issue. You had no reason to believe there was a problem. You offered to help with the starter, showed good faith. As long as oil pressure was good after the pump was done and you didn't try to cover anything up my opinion is you have no responsibility here. Used car 117k miles, shit happens. My response would be that i'm sorry for your luck but it was a used car and things happen i had no reason to believe there were any issues with the car. It sucks, I'd feel bad too but it is what it is. __________________ Whipple 2.9 CAI ID1050x injectors ZL1 Pump JRE FPCM JMS Voltage booster JRE Rough Idle blower cam BTR .660 springs CHE trunnion kit 1 7/8 Speed Engineering Borla Atak JRE scoop 1.5" lowering springs BMR trailing arms and toe links Cradle inserts 704WHP 603WTQ 93 octane

05-21-2020, 11:45 PM	#8
FasNuf Drives: 2014 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,635 View My Garage	Good grief he had it a month!. Sounds like maybe something he did. forget about it. __________________ . . . . https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgN...etl17hA/videos

05-21-2020, 09:33 PM	#6
BehindBlueI's Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Midwest Posts: 314	You didn't offer to warranty the car for him after the sale. You didn't know an issue was coming. You don't even know if it's not something stupid he did. I don't see the dilemma.

05-21-2020, 10:35 PM	#7
CamaroBarb Banned Drives: cheby Camaro Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: usa Posts: 575	No ones at fault here, Its a car and you're not a dealer. Thats why dealers get more for the cars they sell, they usually offer some kind of limited warranty just for such events like this. Dealers also have the resources to cover things like this and have a contract with you to do right. You have no obligation at all unless you lied or hide something. He could have bought a aftermarket warranty and been good to go. Thats not your concern. I'd tell him sorry to hear your trouble but can't help. I honestly don't think anyone in your situation would.

05-22-2020, 12:00 AM	#9
RupertPupkin Drives: 2014 Camaro SS 1Le Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: IL Posts: 1,647	You got a bill of sale that says “as is”, then you’re good. I sold my modded G8 with 113k miles (original owner), less than 5k miles later lifter failed, and tore the cam up. Buyer just told me about it, but he didn’t expect me to pay for the damn thing. Biggest difference was he tracked it, while I didn’t... Mattbatt.... you’re shady. Lol __________________ 2014 SS 1LE Money Pit/ Forged 402 CAM 22X/24X, .619/.617, 113 LSA/ LS9 Heads FIC 1200cc/DSX Aux Pump//McLeod RXT Clutch 730whp: 630Trq

05-22-2020, 06:52 AM	#10
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	I would just say, sorry to hear and I can't explain why that happened... I always maintained the car. I'm not a warranty company, I can't warranty a used car that I sold as is. Being a shyster is misrepresenting something... like a previous salvage title, stolen and VIN swapped.... You didn't misrepresent anything. It's a car, they break down.

05-26-2020, 01:14 PM	#11
mattbatt Drives: 2019 SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: CA Posts: 100	Thank you all! Very good advice. I appreciate this community a ton __________________ 2011 2SS, RS, stripes, Cold Air Inductions, Stainless Retro Chambered 3", Boston Acoustics with Alpine 2x12" SWR type R Subs, Alpine MRX-M100 1,000 Watt RMS amp, P13W LED Daytime Fog Lights, debadged 2019 SS 1LE, Shock

05-26-2020, 01:31 PM	#12
Axe55 Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Toronto Posts: 159	I understand why you feel bad, but I agree with what everyone has already said, it's not your fault. I've bought and sold used cars, and it's always buyer beware. I've bought cars and had issues with them within the first month, and I didn't even let the person who sold it know, I knew what I was getting into when I bought it used. Also, if he tried to tell you you never told him about the oil pump and you've got the screenshots of the messages to prove it... sounds like he might be the one trying to take advantage of you. __________________ 2012 Camaro SS LS3, JRE Scoop, CAI intake, Whipple Supercharger, Fast 85lb injectors, ZL1 pump, McLeod RXT clutch, MGW shifter, Stainless Power 1 7/8 headers w/HFC, Ridetech coilovers, BMR sway bars, trailing arms, toe rods, cradle bushing inserts, 2020 Speed Tuned.